Nightmare Pool Patio--Concrete HELP

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Pileit1971

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Sep 6, 2016
9
Cleveland, OHio
Hi Everyone,

I am very new, and need some help and advice....

I had a new inground pool 18x36 pool installed last fall, October and completed mid-november, we did a colored concrete w a broomed finish, total of 1,400 square feet... There are two different patios, one off the house and second two steps down around the pool...

So anyways, to the nightmare, after the initial pour we noticed some finish issues with brush strokes in weird spots and as it dried the color was completely uneven and splotchy (sorry not sure if that is a word).. See Pics...

Asking the pool contractor he said that would even out as it cured....it never did and even got worse...

Fast forward to the spring, and our concrete patio is a disaster, even the pool contractor some what agreed that it wasn't good, but he was going to do what he could to fix it...

Options I found...
1. Overlay-- was talked out of this because of the maintnenace and the climate I am in, (North East Ohio) that the overlay would eventually break up once moisture got underneath it over time..

2. Solid Stain/Sealer-- didn't want the "Painted" look, and also a concern about re-occurring maintenance to reapply a costly product..

3. Semi-Transparent concrete stain and seal, this is what we ended up doing and it made it worse, the contrast between the concrete colors and the bad brush marks were made even worse with the stain and the sealer...

Curious if anyone has any suggestions or advice, have seen some options..
1. Grind surface, not sure if that is even doable/viable, but thought it might make color surface more even
2. Overlay-- back to it...
3. Solid Stain, but hate the 'painted' look and wondering if anyone has seen or done anything with multiple colors/layers to give it more depth and character
4. Nature Stone type of product, but have heard bad things about this options, about it breaking down and discoloring in the sun 24/7/365
5. or the most radical is to rip it all out and re-pour, but not sure if thats even possible without damaging the pool and retaining wall, not to mention all the brand new sod and landscaping that I just had installed earlier this year..

Sorry for the lengthy postIMG_1307.jpegIMG_2635.jpegIMG_1310.jpegIMG_0589.jpegIMG_1308.jpegIMG_2806.jpegIMG_1309.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Welcome to TFP! Good to have you here and sorry to hear about your plight.

What color was it supposed to be?

I think you'll end up with a finish over the concrete. There are some good products that last much longer than others. There's stenciling options and all sorts of things. If it was mine, I'd settle for cash with the PB and hire someone with a good reputation that's done it before, unless the builder causing the bad outcome could convince me he can hire someone that knows what they're doing. Everything else looks good from the pics, so it deserves a great deck! Hopefully there's a way to turn a problem into an opportunity.

If your first pool step is high enough, and there's also room at the house, you could lay stone over it but you'd need a good inch of height change, maybe a tad more, and it's expensive.

Grinding it down will not improve improve the color differences, unless it was surface colored, and you ground it all off down to concrete color, but then you'd probably have a height problem and the concrete would be awfully smooth!

Coloring concrete on the surface (dry shake) is a knack which maybe their dude didn't have. Not spread evenly or didn't use enough or used too much or didn't add it before floating or some combination. I'm wondering about those rectangle sections that are different. What was the difference in how the concrete was laid or colored in those cases?

Color can be integral (fully incorporated in the ready-mix), but it would have been a more expensive option, and they would have added the color in the ready-mix truck. If that was the case, it might explain the rectangles if they were poured from different trucks. The splotchiness could be from inadequate mixing time in the truck, but that seems a stretch. Even the truck driver would know it takes time, and you'd see the issue as the concrete was laid.

Can't say I understand the brushing differences. Do you mean brushed in different directions, or not brushed, or brushed a lot more? You can change that by grinding but only going smoother.

I'll send up the bat signal for some pool construction experts. I'm a dinosaur and have only seen coloring that worked out fine. There's always better products and different methods. I'm even wondering if it's a badly done salt finish which shows how old I am!
 
One way or another, everything will work out. Your part in this glorious resolution is to do everything you can do each day to make sure you're 100% ready to receive whichever glorious resolution you're destined for.

You've already started the research phase! Great job! Stay with this thread, other may come too (I saw his bat signal he put up).

Read this https://www.angieslist.com/articles/dont-get-ripped-how-fight-bad-contractor.htm. I'm not saying you have to do any of the several suggestions, but these might be the very tools that get you your resolution. If any seem right, or seem like they put you in a better position, take action. Most people who suffer a bad contractor rip-off do nothing and get nothing. Take massive action. Be respectful to all you deal with, ask honestly for their help in advancing you from where you are towards anything that could help. Once each call ends, thank them and ask if they have any other ideas or observations or questions that could maybe possible help you. You may be surprised how many people you talk with in this process have a great answer, but wouldn't offer it up unless you ask them after you've thanked them and treated them with respect. They're people too, not just a means to an end. Show them you're grateful.

One thing I've found to be an outstanding way to find contractors is call lawyers that work in insurance and ask them who the best and/or most expensive contractor in your city is because you have a job that just has to get done right the first time, no matter the price. Get that company to come out and give you an estimate to make it right. Do not commit to anything. You can take that quote and try to get the bad contractor's insurance, bond, or even them (through arbitration/mediation) to pay for that top rate contractor to do it. Anything is possible, so why not shoot for the best? Exactly.

Ask your friends if anyone knows a good home inspector. Sometimes these usually quite normal people with construction expertise will charge a small amount, usually $200 or less, to come out and advise you on the condition of your home to code and/or for resale purposes. The very best ones will give you a full report. If you work with them on the concrete and pool area a lot, and hire one that knows concrete, you might get, in writing, an expert proof as to your claims. The big bad awesome contractor may do this too.

If you have a mortgage company, call them. They sometimes step in and work magic when homeowners get messed with. Your homeowners insurance might do the same.

Contact a local politician. City, county, state, federal, whatever or all of them. Some keep staffs that handle constituent issues like homeowners being taken advantage of, others don't.

Local news stations rip off reports/investigation crew/channel # on your sides/etc. See if they'll do a story about you or help you off air.

Local legal help - paid or free consultation or free legal services in some places via non-profits/govt/sliding scale, etc.

Disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer, not legal advice, and all of these have some degree of risk, as does doing nothing. Act at your own discretion and seek legal advice if needed/desired.
 
needsajet said:
Welcome to TFP! Good to have you here and sorry to hear about your plight.

What color was it supposed to be?

I think you'll end up with a finish over the concrete. There are some good products that last much longer than others. There's stenciling options and all sorts of things. If it was mine, I'd settle for cash with the PB and hire someone with a good reputation that's done it before, unless the builder causing the bad outcome could convince me he can hire someone that knows what they're doing. Everything else looks good from the pics, so it deserves a great deck! Hopefully there's a way to turn a problem into an opportunity.

If your first pool step is high enough, and there's also room at the house, you could lay stone over it but you'd need a good inch of height change, maybe a tad more, and it's expensive.

Grinding it down will not improve improve the color differences, unless it was surface colored, and you ground it all off down to concrete color, but then you'd probably have a height problem and the concrete would be awfully smooth!

Coloring concrete on the surface (dry shake) is a knack which maybe their dude didn't have. Not spread evenly or didn't use enough or used too much or didn't add it before floating or some combination. I'm wondering about those rectangle sections that are different. What was the difference in how the concrete was laid or colored in those cases?

Color can be integral (fully incorporated in the ready-mix), but it would have been a more expensive option, and they would have added the color in the ready-mix truck. If that was the case, it might explain the rectangles if they were poured from different trucks. The splotchiness could be from inadequate mixing time in the truck, but that seems a stretch. Even the truck driver would know it takes time, and you'd see the issue as the concrete was laid.

Can't say I understand the brushing differences. Do you mean brushed in different directions, or not brushed, or brushed a lot more? You can change that by grinding but only going smoother.

I'll send up the bat signal for some pool construction experts. I'm a dinosaur and have only seen coloring that worked out fine. There's always better products and different methods. I'm even wondering if it's a badly done salt finish which shows how old I am!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply and the advice...

It was supposed to be the darker color in the pictures and it was integral color, mixed in the truck....

the brush strokes that are the biggest issue is because of the retaining wall location and proximity to the pool, guess they couldn't get a full brush on it... it was supposed to be hand finished, but a couple trucks were running late and they asked to soak broom finish...

the worst one one of the blocks, I had a concrete contractor come look at it, and he said he knows exactly what they did, I guess after brush strokes they will rinse off the broom and shake off the water, he said water was not shaken off and the broom was to wet w either concrete or water, and that was about the last area they did, and he said he brushed the top layer right off as the color was settling...at the time it all looked the same as wet concrete....but as it dried it became obviously much worse.

the pool guy has been great up to this point and knows it's not right, I have asked him if he would want to bring potential customers over to see the pool, and although he didn't answer directly, it was enough of an answer....

he he has committed to getting it right, but his opinion, he wants to put down a solid stain/sealer, and that will give it a painted look w a lot more reoccurring maintenance every few years...,and don't get me wrong, I know any pool deck needs regular maintenance, but power washing and sealing, not having to paint it....��

I feel eel like an overlay is my best option, but he has tried talking me out of it (probably because of the cost that he knows he will have to front), but I am going to talk to some other experts to see what they say about it, the concern/risk is it cracking and getting moisture under it w my frozen climate and will ruin it in short order.... did talk to one guy, but he was out of my area, but he said just the opposite, that done RIGHT w the proper prep work an overlay will last a long time...

overall, I still have a great pool that we love and most people don't even notice anything wrong, but after paying what you all know what I paid, this is not what I expected, and the PG knows that, time will tell to see what steps I need to take once he gets a $10-12,000 repair bill...

thanks for for the bat signal being raised and will keep an eye on anymore comments!!!

scott
 
BattleOfYakima said:
One way or another, everything will work out. Your part in this glorious resolution is to do everything you can do each day to make sure you're 100% ready to receive whichever glorious resolution you're destined for.

You've already started the research phase! Great job! Stay with this thread, other may come too (I saw his bat signal he put up).

Read this https://www.angieslist.com/articles/dont-get-ripped-how-fight-bad-contractor.htm. I'm not saying you have to do any of the several suggestions, but these might be the very tools that get you your resolution. If any seem right, or seem like they put you in a better position, take action. Most people who suffer a bad contractor rip-off do nothing and get nothing. Take massive action. Be respectful to all you deal with, ask honestly for their help in advancing you from where you are towards anything that could help. Once each call ends, thank them and ask if they have any other ideas or observations or questions that could maybe possible help you. You may be surprised how many people you talk with in this process have a great answer, but wouldn't offer it up unless you ask them after you've thanked them and treated them with respect. They're people too, not just a means to an end. Show them you're grateful.

One thing I've found to be an outstanding way to find contractors is call lawyers that work in insurance and ask them who the best and/or most expensive contractor in your city is because you have a job that just has to get done right the first time, no matter the price. Get that company to come out and give you an estimate to make it right. Do not commit to anything. You can take that quote and try to get the bad contractor's insurance, bond, or even them (through arbitration/mediation) to pay for that top rate contractor to do it. Anything is possible, so why not shoot for the best? Exactly.

Ask your friends if anyone knows a good home inspector. Sometimes these usually quite normal people with construction expertise will charge a small amount, usually $200 or less, to come out and advise you on the condition of your home to code and/or for resale purposes. The very best ones will give you a full report. If you work with them on the concrete and pool area a lot, and hire one that knows concrete, you might get, in writing, an expert proof as to your claims. The big bad awesome contractor may do this too.

If you have a mortgage company, call them. They sometimes step in and work magic when homeowners get messed with. Your homeowners insurance might do the same.

Contact a local politician. City, county, state, federal, whatever or all of them. Some keep staffs that handle constituent issues like homeowners being taken advantage of, others don't.

Local news stations rip off reports/investigation crew/channel # on your sides/etc. See if they'll do a story about you or help you off air.

Local legal help - paid or free consultation or free legal services in some places via non-profits/govt/sliding scale, etc.

Disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer, not legal advice, and all of these have some degree of risk, as does doing nothing. Act at your own discretion and seek legal advice if needed/desired.
Click to expand...

Thanks also for the advice, for now the PG is trying to make it right but so far two things we tried didn't work and I have lost hope.

see my comments above about what remedies I am considering and his opinions of them, for now, like you suggested I am working on talking to others and getting opinions and estimates and will go from there...

will see see how he responds once I want someone else to fix it at his cost, but for now, going to hold tight...

i am am also a realtor w a pretty big network and he knows this also...

and i I know from my Owen business that 10 good reviews will get ruined by one bad one.... but as I said I am taking my time and not trying to rush into anything (anymore...) and will see how it plays out...
 
They just did a bad job and it should be removed and redone. A rock salt or broom finish with color hardener is a maintenance free, durable and attractive finish for a pool deck. There are lots of pics of our deck in my pool thread, link in sig. It is on its 6th summer with zero maintenance besides an occasional hose, broom or leaf blower.

You are right to avoid solid stains and overlays. Overlays fail within a few to 5ish years and are a mess to redo. If a transparent stain didn't fix it then it is time to redo it.

The only other options worth investigating in my opinion are:
Grind the surface and try a transparent stain or acid etching stain one more time.
Try acid etching color stain if you haven't already.
 
pooldv said:
They just did a bad job and it should be removed and redone. A rock salt or broom finish with color hardener is a maintenance free, durable and attractive finish for a pool deck. There are lots of pics of our deck in my pool thread, link in sig. It is on its 6th summer with zero maintenance besides an occasional hose, broom or leaf blower.

You are right to avoid solid stains and overlays. Overlays fail within a few to 5ish years and are a mess to redo. If a transparent stain didn't fix it then it is time to redo it.

The only other options worth investigating in my opinion are:
Grind the surface and try a transparent stain or acid etching stain one more time.
Try acid etching color stain if you haven't already.
Click to expand...

THanks for advice DV...

So dump question, my pool is a steel wall, vinyl liner pool... I guess anything can be done, but can the existing concrete be removed and replaced without damaged the pool???

Would be worried that the weight of the equipment, etc, would damage/collapse the walls...
 
I don't know for sure but my feeling is yes it can be done. They might need to use a portable jack hammer and carry the pieces a little bit to the skid loader.
 
Check out "Roller Rock," Spread Stone," and "Spread Rock" from a company called Daich Coatings:

Daich Coatings - Total Project Planner

use the "project planner" tool to find which coating is best for you. These are very high quality at a fraction of the cost of something like Nature Stone (which as you know is heavily promoted in NE Ohio) if you can DIY. I have several family members who have used these products for covering everything from laminate counter tops, garage floors, to concrete patios. As with any product that will cover the concrete, proper preparation of the existing concrete is very important.

I believe it is sold at Home Depot as well as thru their website.

Hope this helps.

Now my question to you.... who did your pool? Looking at options for a pool down in Canton area.
 

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Kevin9999 said:
Check out "Roller Rock," Spread Stone," and "Spread Rock" from a company called Daich Coatings:

Daich Coatings - Total Project Planner

use the "project planner" tool to find which coating is best for you. These are very high quality at a fraction of the cost of something like Nature Stone (which as you know is heavily promoted in NE Ohio) if you can DIY. I have several family members who have used these products for covering everything from laminate counter tops, garage floors, to concrete patios. As with any product that will cover the concrete, proper preparation of the existing concrete is very important.

I believe it is sold at Home Depot as well as thru their website.

Hope this helps.

Now my question to you.... who did your pool? Looking at options for a pool down in Canton area.
Click to expand...

Wow, love the information on this project, this almost appears to be more of a roll-on paint coating that has some texture and different colors in it... One of the "fixes" was to use a solid stain/sealer, but don't want the "painted" look with one color... but this gives it more texture and even some speckled color look...

Can I ask with your family members, how long this lasts? Can it be re-applied or does the based layer have to be removed?

Also the pool guy was Zaber Pools, in Amherst. Canton may be a little far for him, but he is getting ready to do a project in Shaker Heights next week. And know one of his suppliers is in the Canton area...

And want to make one thing very clear, the concrete issue we have (in my opinion) is not the PG's fault, he brought in finishers that I don't think were up to par, mistakes were made and poor choices, HOWEVER, he is absolutely mortified on how it looks and has been standing by us to make sure we are happy.... Just not sure how he will react if and when I give him a $10,000 bill for a repair/makeover...

But his work, his attitude, his ideas and designs are top notch...
 
Pileit1971 said:
Wow, love the information on this project, this almost appears to be more of a roll-on paint coating that has some texture and different colors in it... One of the "fixes" was to use a solid stain/sealer, but don't want the "painted" look with one color... but this gives it more texture and even some speckled color look...

Can I ask with your family members, how long this lasts? Can it be re-applied or does the based layer have to be removed?

Also the pool guy was Zaber Pools, in Amherst. Canton may be a little far for him, but he is getting ready to do a project in Shaker Heights next week. And know one of his suppliers is in the Canton area...

And want to make one thing very clear, the concrete issue we have (in my opinion) is not the PG's fault, he brought in finishers that I don't think were up to par, mistakes were made and poor choices, HOWEVER, he is absolutely mortified on how it looks and has been standing by us to make sure we are happy.... Just not sure how he will react if and when I give him a $10,000 bill for a repair/makeover...

But his work, his attitude, his ideas and designs are top notch...
Click to expand...


Just a reminder that preparation for the concrete is key; that being said, the roller rock will last several years and can be re-applied, the spread stone and spread rock should last much longer. My uncle has had spreadstone in his garage for about 7 = 7 Ohio Winters, still looks great. As for re-application, none have had to reapply but my guess is that you could reapply right over the old product.
 
Sorry to hear bout this, man. Really sucks.

About 8 yrs ago I had a stamped concrete patio installed. They used the powdered/colored release on top covered by a clear glossy sealer. Looked great at first, but over time, the color started flaking off -- first in small chunks, then larger. Now probably half the deck is bare concrete. When they poured my pool deck, I asked the concrete guy if anything could be done to fix the old deck, but he said that any fix would just make it worse. Transparent stain would be uneven, solid stain would flake off over time. A bad concrete job is the worst.
 
I think the SpreadRock or SpreadStone would look best. If you search through the Daich website you will see slip resistance ratings, project ideas: here's one doing a concrete pool Do It Yourself Solutions

if you look at each product it can give you an approximation of cost per sq. Ft. so you can have some idea of what it will cost. I believe there are several YouTube videos that you can watch to see these products.
 
shanebo said:
Sorry to hear bout this, man. Really sucks.

About 8 yrs ago I had a stamped concrete patio installed. They used the powdered/colored release on top covered by a clear glossy sealer. Looked great at first, but over time, the color started flaking off -- first in small chunks, then larger. Now probably half the deck is bare concrete. When they poured my pool deck, I asked the concrete guy if anything could be done to fix the old deck, but he said that any fix would just make it worse. Transparent stain would be uneven, solid stain would flake off over time. A bad concrete job is the worst.
Click to expand...

What did you end up doing?
 
Kevin9999 said:
I think the SpreadRock or SpreadStone would look best. If you search through the Daich website you will see slip resistance ratings, project ideas: here's one doing a concrete pool Do It Yourself Solutions

if you look at each product it can give you an approximation of cost per sq. Ft. so you can have some idea of what it will cost. I believe there are several YouTube videos that you can watch to see these products.
Click to expand...

Yea I have went thru all the products and honestly it looks like the best cost effective option I have is going to be one of the Daich products...

I know they talk about this being DIY type product, when your family used it, did they DIY or hire someone? Sounds like they are in the same area and would rather hire someone that is familiar with the product for the application...curious, let me know...

Sorry for all the questions, may have to meet and buy you a beer for the info!
 
Pileit1971 said:
What did you end up doing?
Click to expand...

Right now we're just living with it, lol ... Power washing every year takes off more and more of the release. I figure 4-5 years we'll be down to bare concrete and either leave it as is or do a stain/etch. That approach won't work for you, however, since your color is mixed in with the concrete. Since your job is relatively new, I'd try to get your guy to redo it -- huge PITA, I know, but any sort of coating won't be permanent.
 
Pileit1971 said:
Hi Everyone,

I am very new, and need some help and advice....

I had a new inground pool 18x36 pool installed last fall, October and completed mid-november, we did a colored concrete w a broomed finish, total of 1,400 square feet... There are two different patios, one off the house and second two steps down around the pool...

So anyways, to the nightmare, after the initial pour we noticed some finish issues with brush strokes in weird spots and as it dried the color was completely uneven and splotchy (sorry not sure if that is a word).. See Pics...

Asking the pool contractor he said that would even out as it cured....it never did and even got worse...

Fast forward to the spring, and our concrete patio is a disaster, even the pool contractor some what agreed that it wasn't good, but he was going to do what he could to fix it...

Options I found...
1. Overlay-- was talked out of this because of the maintnenace and the climate I am in, (North East Ohio) that the overlay would eventually break up once moisture got underneath it over time..

2. Solid Stain/Sealer-- didn't want the "Painted" look, and also a concern about re-occurring maintenance to reapply a costly product..

3. Semi-Transparent concrete stain and seal, this is what we ended up doing and it made it worse, the contrast between the concrete colors and the bad brush marks were made even worse with the stain and the sealer...

Curious if anyone has any suggestions or advice, have seen some options..
1. Grind surface, not sure if that is even doable/viable, but thought it might make color surface more even
2. Overlay-- back to it...
3. Solid Stain, but hate the 'painted' look and wondering if anyone has seen or done anything with multiple colors/layers to give it more depth and character
4. Nature Stone type of product, but have heard bad things about this options, about it breaking down and discoloring in the sun 24/7/365
5. or the most radical is to rip it all out and re-pour, but not sure if thats even possible without damaging the pool and retaining wall, not to mention all the brand new sod and landscaping that I just had installed earlier this year..

Sorry for the lengthy postView attachment 66990View attachment 66995View attachment 66993View attachment 66989View attachment 66991View attachment 66994View attachment 66992
Click to expand...
What was your final solution? I am in the exact same situation but mine is much worse due to calcium chloride spots and I have looked at all your options and all seem to have risks associated with them. Would love to hear what you did!
 

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shanebo said:
Sorry to hear bout this, man. Really sucks.

About 8 yrs ago I had a stamped concrete patio installed. They used the powdered/colored release on top covered by a clear glossy sealer. Looked great at first, but over time, the color started flaking off -- first in small chunks, then larger. Now probably half the deck is bare concrete. When they poured my pool deck, I asked the concrete guy if anything could be done to fix the old deck, but he said that any fix would just make it worse. Transparent stain would be uneven, solid stain would flake off over time. A bad concrete job is the worst.
Click to expand...
Did they have any color troweled into the base or was it just the powder release color over the bare concrete? I ask because I just had a stamped two color deck put in and sound very much like what you describe and I worry that it might do the same thing. Did you reseal?

Sorry for hijacking the broom finish talk...
 

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