SPA heater, what would happen?

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Hulaomr said:
Considering the heater seems to be seated for long time and the previous owner never worry about it, It could means that the pipe line or gas installation could be the reason and I would like to be sure if it even possible before investing more on the heater. However, for that gas installation it will probably be required an operational heater for testing. May be wrong.
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When you tested the gas line, was it disconnected from the meter and the heater, capped at both ends, and pressurized to 15psi (approximately) using air pressure? When my gas line was installed we ensured it held 15psi overnight. If your line has even the smallest leak, you will see 15psi move lower very quickly.

Do you know the diameter of the gas line used?

Do you know the run length of the gas line from the meter to the equipment pad?
 
JoyfulNoise said:
When you tested the gas line, was it disconnected from the meter and the heater, capped at both ends, and pressurized to 15psi (approximately) using air pressure? When my gas line was installed we ensured it held 15psi overnight. If your line has even the smallest leak, you will see 15psi move lower very quickly.

Do you know the diameter of the gas line used?

Do you know the run length of the gas line from the meter to the equipment pad?
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Correct, we applied the same testing procedure you suggest, except that we used 30psi instead of 15psi.

The gas pipe line is a PEX of 3/4 (20mm) and length of ~68.5 meters from the meter area to the heater.

I was wondering from my first if such line could be used for this heater, because according with the gas pipe sizing section of the install guide, it not even on the table.

@JoyfulNoise very appreciated for your guidelines and questions.

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Hulaomr said:
The gas pipe line is a PEX of 3/4 (20mm) and length of ~68.5 meters from the meter area to the heater.
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Therein lies the problem. 68.5M is ~ 225ft !! You absolutely cannot run a gas heater (400 cubic ft per hour) at low pressure using that kind of gas run. You’ll starve the heater of fuel and it will likely just shutoff.

For reference, my MasterTemp 400 is 150ft from the gas meter and I had 2” diameter PVC run. Even at that size, I would say my gas feed is a little underperforming. My heater still runs fine but it’s not optimal.

You’re going to have to convert that line to high pressure (2psi) and then use regulators to bring the gas pressure down.

@JamesW, do you have the piping size charts for NG?
 
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So if you get this figured out, you’re going to need to make sure that your gas line can hold 2psi (sounds like it should have no problem with that) and then the gas line itself will need to provide the correct static and dynamic pressure to the heater without the gas line pressure dropping more than 1 psi during heater use. You will need a properly sized regulator at the equipment pad (it needs to be sized for both pressure and flow). Your meter will probably need to be changed out and you’ll need to either put a regulator on the pipe going into your home for the various appliances you have OR each appliance will need its own regulator. When the gas company sizes the meter, you need to account for every gas appliance in your home with their max BTU usage.
 
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JoyfulNoise said:
For reference, my MasterTemp 400 is 150ft from the gas meter and I had 2” diameter PVC run. Even at that size, I would say my gas feed is a little underperforming. My heater still runs fine but it’s not optimal.
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2" at 150 feet should be good to about 928 CFH (928,000 btu/hr) using a 0.5" w.c pressure drop.

2" at 500' can do 484 CFH using a 0.5" w.c pressure drop, so there should be no problems with 2" at 150 feet.

Even if you used a more conservative 0.3" w.c pressure drop, you can go 400 feet with 2" pipe.

At 150 feet, you can do 704 CFH using a 0.3" w.c pressure drop.

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@JoyfulNoise, @JamesW, thanks for your valuable input.
This relieves a lot, although it is not as suggested.
A gas pipe diagram with the current situation has been made, including others with your proposals (if I understand correctly).
I included a third option in case a new meter make sense and is allowed, of course. Please, may you confirm if such diagrams reflect your suggestions, including the priority order (from 1 to 3, where 1 is the recommended)?
Thanks!

PS: the BBQ gas pipe is a line that I found it was connected to a fire pit on a small edge pool that I just removed, because I found too complicated at the moment (electrical wiring and piping damaged, far from Easy Touch, gas valve damaged, etc...). The valve (together with the heater valve) is located behind a terrace on the garden and I consider it could be used for a BBQ instead. Its not related with the heater, but I think it could be used because the test pressure was ok.

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I don't know how things are done in Panama but in the US you don't typically have multiple gas pressures from the meter. The gas pressure from the street utility pipe is high pressure and then there is a regulator to convert it to either 2psi or 14" WC and then a meter that is designed for the pressure and flow rate needed. You can't have multiple meters.

You're going to need to talk to a local gas plumber where you are or have the gas utility company advise you on the best approach. If you wish to use that buried 3/4" line then your only option is to get a 2psi supply with the properly sized meter.
 
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JoyfulNoise said:
I don't know how things are done in Panama but in the US you don't typically have multiple gas pressures from the meter. The gas pressure from the street utility pipe is high pressure and then there is a regulator to convert it to either 2psi or 14" WC and then a meter that is designed for the pressure and flow rate needed. You can't have multiple meters.

You're going to need to talk to a local gas plumber where you are or have the gas utility company advise you on the best approach. If you wish to use that buried 3/4" line then your only option is to get a 2psi supply with the properly sized meter.
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@JoyfulNoise, understood. I keep you posted.

I will proceed with purchasing of the replacements for the heater (which I need to acquire overseas) and start the process to enable the gas line.
 
Hulaomr said:
Following with the individual testing, the igniter was evaluated, resulting in 82 ohms.

Do you think is will be OK or is too high?

In the blog it suggest 50 ohm but I saw many people reporting others values (like 75 ohms).

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@JoyfulNoise please, may you give me any feedback regarding the ignitor and test result?
 
Hulaomr said:
Following with the individual testing, the igniter was evaluated, resulting in 82 ohms.
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That is a little bit high, but not so high as to indicate a bad igniter.

The spec is 40 to 80 ohms.

You can apply 120 volts to the ignitor to see if it gets hot.

Note: It should get red hot, so make sure that you do this safely where the igniter is not making contact with anything.

Check the amperage at the same time.



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Check the ignitor by unplugging the ignitor plug and measuring the ignitor resistance.

It should be 50-80 ohms.

If the resistance is not 50-80 ohms, replace the ignitor.

If the resistance is correct, reset the boiler and check for 120 VAC at the ignitor plug during the start cycle.

 
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Hi @JamesW,
Thanks for the suggestions regarding the test of the igniter.
Initially, I used a controlled environment with AC power supply to start testing from 10Vac up to 12Vac. During the test, the igniter start heating (red color) around 70VAC (@2 sec after on). While the time ON increase, the device get more red (and the current increase). It seems the resistance decrease according with the temperature.
At the end, with 120Vac it get a bright light in 1 sec with a current of ~3.9Aac. I keep it ON during 3 secs.
I couldn't not find the technical datasheet of the device, but it seems is working as expected, right?
Thanks!
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Hello,
Just a little note to inform you I already received the new sensors and O-rings, which allows to connect the heater to the pipe in order to test for water leaking.
For now, I'm waiting for the missing pump. I keep you posted once is installed and tested.
Meanwhile, I will appreciated if you could take a look at an issue with the actuator valve, which I reported at new post (here).
Thanks!
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Hello,

I finally received the new pump (Intelliflo3, which looks amazing BTW), and installed in order to test the heater.

Hopefully, the heat exchanger seems ok after a few minutes running the pump (@2500 RPM). I just found a couple of obvious leaks: 1) at the union to the pipe due to bad O-ring position, and 2) at manifold around the sensors. I had to order a new one.

I will wait to fix the leak in order to continue assembling the heater and proceed with further testing (waiting patiently!). Meanwhile, the pump and actuator valve are working as expected, controlled by the EasyTouch.

I just wondering about the functioning of the SPA itself regarding the filter pump. The circuit for the heater go directly to the SPA (return and intake) and the filter pump run in another circuit with the chlorinator. The last, has a return to the SPA with later follow to the main pool by overflow. My question is: must I keep the filter pump running while the heater is working? In this case, the hot water will overflow the SPA and go to the main pool decreasing the efficiency of the SPA water heating circuit.

Appreciated any input or reference regarding this question.

Thanks again!

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Updating the situation with the heater.
 
Hello,

Following the heater start-up, so far, the following modification were performed.
  1. The manifold assembly was changed (to avoid water leaks)
  2. The U-clip (u-nut) were changed because the original were too rusted
  3. A couple of screws were changed on the chamber because rust. A washer pressure was include to improve reliability
  4. The rusty areas on the chamber were scraped, applied rust remover and painted with high temperature paint (same used in BBQ)
  5. Some terminal connector (at the sensors) were replaced because the original were rusted
  6. The plastic enclosure panels were cleaned
  7. The electrical power was connected to the same SPA pump breaker (220V)
  8. The remote connection with EasyTouch by the fireman's switch
  9. The Heater was enabled on the Easy Touch when the SPA mode is ON
  10. The piping was lightly changed to improve the area in the room (including the union adapters suggested in other post)
Once the SPA mode is enabled, the heater and pump started and everything seems OK.
  1. The blower seems to operate OK. I don't have another to compare. Perhaps, too much noise, but not sure about that
  2. The water flows seems OK without leaking on the sensors, heat exchanger or piping
  3. The display on the heater seems OK. I suppose I need to change the temperature units to Celsius
  4. The buttons seems OK. I just enabled and disabled the heater a couple of time.
I share a video of the heater during the start-up (it was the third time, once I started recording).



Today, I started communication with house builder in order to enable the gas pipe line.

I keep you posted.


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