DE Filter Cleaning (Repair) Cost
- Thread starter JPMorgan
- Start date
Yikes! So then that would probably not be considered an exact equipment swap, so… simply installing a new tab feeder will cost us a minimum of $4,000 (for drawings and permits)! What a racket!
Where in the code does it say this?
If this is what you are told ask for the exact code section that requires an engineering drawing.
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You don’t want to put cal hypo in a trichlor feeder anyway. Bad stuff can happen.
Section 820.100 Permits
a) Construction Permit. A construction permit shall be obtained prior to beginning any construction, major alteration or installation of a swimming facility.
b) Procedure to Obtain a Construction Permit
1) The owner or his or her representative shall contract with a project designer from the Department's list of prequalified architects or prequalified professional engineers (see Swimming Pools) who shall submit a completed application for a construction permit to the Department. The application forms are available from the Department.
I have called the Department to ask about replacing our trichlor feeder with a liquid chlorine feeder and was told that any change that is not an exact equipment replacement will require drawings and permits. My guess is that this change falls under their definition of "major alteration". Like I said.... it seems like quite a racket they have going. In order to make a fairly simple change to improve the sanitation of the pool (reduce accumulation of CYA in the pool) requires paying the piper $3,000 - $4,000. We already have a Controller on our system, so we are just looking to swap out the type of chlorine feeder. The rules and regulations result in double or triple the cost and discourages simple improvements.
(210 ILCS 125/3.19)
Sec. 3.19. Major alteration. "Major alteration" means any change to a swimming facility or its aquatic features or appurtenances that alters the facility's functionality or as-built or as-permitted condition.
This includes, but is not limited to, an alteration of a pool that changes the water surface area, depth, or volume, addition of a permanently installed appurtenance such as a diving board, slide, or starting platform, modification of the design of the recirculation system, and replacement or modification of a bather preparation facility.
It does not include maintenance or minor repair or the replacement of equipment with comparable components.
(Source: P.A. 97-957, eff. 1-1-13.)
(210 ILCS 125/3.15)
Sec. 3.15. Prequalified swimming facility contractor. "Prequalified swimming facility contractor" means a person who is prequalified by the Department to perform the construction, installation, modification, or repair of a swimming facility and its appurtenances.
(Source: P.A. 97-957, eff. 1-1-13.)
HEALTH FACILITIES AND REGULATION
(210 ILCS 125/) Swimming Facility Act.
In my opinion, it would fall under a trade license like a pool contractor license for service or construction or maybe a plumber.
Requiring a professional engineer to do a design, engineering and architecture plan is unnecessary, in my opinion.
In my opinion, this is not a major alteration.
I think that if you have a licensed pool contractor submit a permit application, that should be sufficient.
Sec. 3.19. Major alteration. "Major alteration" means any change to a swimming facility or its aquatic features or appurtenances that alters the facility's functionality or as-built or as-permitted condition.
This includes, but is not limited to, an alteration of a pool that changes the water surface area, depth, or volume, addition of a permanently installed appurtenance such as a diving board, slide, or starting platform, modification of the design of the recirculation system, and replacement or modification of a bather preparation facility.
It does not include maintenance or minor repair or the replacement of equipment with comparable components.
(Source: P.A. 97-957, eff. 1-1-13.)
(210 ILCS 125/3.15)
Sec. 3.15. Prequalified swimming facility contractor. "Prequalified swimming facility contractor" means a person who is prequalified by the Department to perform the construction, installation, modification, or repair of a swimming facility and its appurtenances.
(Source: P.A. 97-957, eff. 1-1-13.)
HEALTH FACILITIES AND REGULATION
(210 ILCS 125/) Swimming Facility Act.
In my opinion, it would fall under a trade license like a pool contractor license for service or construction or maybe a plumber.
Requiring a professional engineer to do a design, engineering and architecture plan is unnecessary, in my opinion.
In my opinion, this is not a major alteration.
I think that if you have a licensed pool contractor submit a permit application, that should be sufficient.
Me either.
I would argue that any feeder / SWG was a comparable 'chlorine dosing system' because the output is the same.
Thanks a million guys. JamesW... I am printing out the information you supplied and will make another call to the state armed with this information.... or do you think I should first talk with our licensed pool company (who is also an approved contractor with the state) and have them argue our case? Whenever I have brought this up before the pool company told me I'm going to have to get drawings and permits. However, if I sit down with them with this section of the code in front of me, maybe he will take the case up with the state on our behalf. Any thoughts about how best to move forward? The changes we want to make at this time are 1) sand filter to replace DE filter and 2) liquid chlorine feeder to replace trichlor tab feeder. Pumps on both pools are okay.
One more question (off topic).... our bromine feeder is down until our Controller gets repaired. I have been manually feeding liquid chlorine, but need to buy some more. We have some dichlor on hand. Can I use the dichlor to sanitize the pool for a brief period of time? I know it will lower pH a bit, but that is okay because it tends to run high. It will also add some CYA. Is that a problem in a bromine pool?
One more question (off topic).... our bromine feeder is down until our Controller gets repaired. I have been manually feeding liquid chlorine, but need to buy some more. We have some dichlor on hand. Can I use the dichlor to sanitize the pool for a brief period of time? I know it will lower pH a bit, but that is okay because it tends to run high. It will also add some CYA. Is that a problem in a bromine pool?
I would just have the pool contractor apply for the permit and see if it get issued.
The contractor should be able to do the design specifications and the building inspector can approve the application or request further information if necessary.
The contractor should be able to do the design specifications and the building inspector can approve the application or request further information if necessary.
I would be ok as long as the CYA was lower than 40 ppm.
I would be more concerned about the amount of DMH, which has the same effect on bromine as CYA has on chlorine.
100 lbs of bromine tabs will add about 125 ppm of dmh to 50,000 gallons of water.
The amount of CYA added by trichlor is roughly the same amount of DMH added by bromine tabs.
The amount of CYA added by trichlor is roughly the same amount of DMH added by bromine tabs.
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Thanks again. Our indoor pool is 20,000 gals, so the amount of DMH being added per 100 lbs of bromine is much higher. What level is too high? It's not the same as CYA, is it?
Facilities using bromine as a sanitiser shall keep the DMH levels no greater than 200 milligrams per litre.
I'm doing some math here.... If regulations require bromine pools to have no more than 200 mg/l DMH and we have a 20,000 gallon pool, then we are likely above that level after using 100 lbs. of bromine to sanitize our pool.... even accounting for fill water. Is that correct? If so, does this mean we should be draining and refilling the pool after every 100 lbs. of bromine that have been put in the feeder since there is no way to measure the DMH?
I would limit the amount to 60 lbs.
I don't know if your area has a specific limit on DMH, so it might be more of a choice rather than a code
I don't know if your area has a specific limit on DMH, so it might be more of a choice rather than a code
I'm going to check the regulations for our area to see if DMH is addressed in any way. Is there any way to tell if DMH is getting too high other than tracking the number of pounds of bromine tabs used? Right now the pool is in good shape..... clean and clear... no real issues, but I'm pretty sure we have used more than 60 lbs. of bromine in the pool. I hate to dump the water (and HOA might question the need for this) if the pool looks good and is functioning well. What type of problems would I begin to see when DMH is too high? Cloudy water.... greenish... trouble maintaining sanitizer level, etc.? Thanks again for your help and advice.
A specialized lab is probably the only way to test.
I don't know of any available test kits.
Similar to overstabilization with CYA.
Update: I reviewed the section of regulations related to water quality. CYA is addressed (must not exceed 100), but no mention of DMH.
I agree... but all will depend on how an official with the state of Illinois decides to interpret the definition of "major alteration". The quick answer I got during my last phone call with a state official was that any replacement that is not identical to the original equipment will require an application from an engineer or architect. However, it's possible that I misunderstood and it will only require an application from a licensed, pre-qualified pool contractor. I will be pursuing this for sure.