Swamp pool at opening, now stuck milky

[Trhod12]

Good morning,
I used to be on the old pool forum years ago with Ben. Haven't been around in a while and need some help. During winter, I lost water in my pool causing the solid cover to fall into the pool allowing the worst algae I have ever dealt with (see 1st attachment "Pool at opening). You can see the pool progression as I used the SLAM technique (attachment 2 and 3). I haven't had to SLAM the pool since I change to SWG in 2019. Previously, I use liquid Chlorine for everything, this year I used HTH Shock advance powder (approx 56 % Cal Hypo).

The 4th picture is my pool today, after a week, and it is still very milky. I can't see the bottom to vacuum, so I have been running the robot cleaner at least daily, and it is coming back clean, so I am pretty sure I have all the leaves and gunk out of the bottom. I have been using DE on top of Sand Filter to try and help clear pool, which has always worked in the past.

The last picture is the pool normally, I have a darker liner, which I wanted to show.

We do have many pine trees in the area, and the pollen has been very, very heavy this year.

Current Chemistry:

pH: 7.5
FC: 1-2 (SWG is running, but not able to keep up with sun due to low CYA)
CYA: 20 (Started at 0, Added some early last week to get to 20, haven't been adjusting yet as I am still backwashing and don't want to loose the CYA off the filter)
ALK: 70-80
Salt: 2800 ( I will be adding to this again today to bump to target 3,000-3,200 level)

I have never had the pool stay milky so long. I have never used a clarifier in the pool due to warnings from this site, but am considering it now.

Questions:
1. Did I do something wrong? Did the Cal Hypo cause this>
2. Am I justified in trying clarifier at this point, or should I continue to stay away?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. This site has always been a huge help in the past. Good people with great knowledge.

Thank you,

Ted

21,000 gal Anthony Pool, 18 x 36 rectangle 3'shallow 8.5' deep. Hayward Aqua-Rite T900 SWG, Dolphin Diagnostics Robotic cleaner, Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Sand filter.

 

[Newdude]

Hey T !!!! So. With the questions you're asking, you sound to going from memory. Have a refresher. SLAM Process

The mega key part is to M / maintain. You want to test/add every 2-3 hours until the FC holds longer, and then test/add at those intervals. (Which get longer as it goes)

Your pics seem kinda on the fence where you've killed most of the algae and the battle is going to shift soon to filtering it all out. You will keep the FC up just because you don't want to lose any ground if any algae is still left, but it will mostly hold. So your attention turns to the filter and you need to clean it at 25% PSI increases.

Brush and vac daily, even blindly. Work a pattern the best you can to get most of the floor.

Get all up in the skimmers/auto fill or anything else you may have to scrub down every inch. We've even seen the foam on the back of the world door be greened up and reintroducing algae the whole time. Every inch is suspect until it's not.

It takes as long as it takes and the more effort you put in, the faster it goes. Even when it's terrible, it would be more terrible with less effort.

Keep us posted. You got this.

 

[Trhod12]

Sorry, forgot to add this detail in original post.

I was able to maintain chlorine levels over night at >10ppm, had CC < 0.5 when I stopped the SLAM, the 3rd part (clear water) has never happened.

 

[Newdude]

Ha !!! OK that's kinda a juicy detail. I've forgotten worse, so no finger pointing from me.

It's possible that the CalHypo added cloud as the filter removed dead algae cloud. You may still have algae or it may clear with a little more time. SLAM on until all 3 criteria pass. The OCLT isn't needed until you pass the first with clear water. It should be real easy to continue while it holds the FC.

Also, CYA from now on gets suspended in a sock in front of a return so it doesn't touch the wall. Give it plenty of time to get mushy and squeeze it out into the water. Then it won't be mostly in your filter (like when adding to the skimmer per the instructions) so you can backwash at will. Plus, it's acid and you don't want to dump acid through your equipment over and over when you don't have to. Why even take the chance, you know? If you added by sock already, you can backwash at will now, and test to verify before bumping to 30.

CYA of 20 and below doesn't always look like it looks. If it's below 30 when you test, add in 10s so you don't overshoot by a mile

 

[Trhod12]

Thanks for the share. I am heading to get liquid chlorine again, and get rid if the CalHypo. I feel more comfortable with the liquid, as I have used it with much success in the past. Just getting older, and don't like hauling cases and cases of liquid bleach home.

I'll get back at it today and post any progress after the weekend.

Thanks,

T

 

[Newdude]

Get alot of pics as you go. As the cloudiness winds down it often appears to come to a stand still and the pics will help ease your overly tested patience. You'll see that it does actually look better than yesterday.


Also, if you ever wondered if the pool store turnover myth had any sustenance to it.... look no further than how many times your water has turned over, and how many more times it has to go. Utter. Bullfeathers.

You have a specific needed amount right now. And next week will be different. And the week after that. And your neighbor has his own need. The whole 3X for every pool In the land is laughable.

 

[Trhod12]

Morning abbreviated chemistry report:
Cl: 14
CYA: 30
Salt: 3100

Chemicals added last 24 hours:

1.5 Lbs Stabilizer via sock over jet. (Thank you for the reminder of this. Forgot this one)
40 Lbs Salt
7 Gal of Liquid Chlorine 12.5 % (5 through out the day yesterday, and 2 gal last night after sun went down)

Brush walls yesterday morning, vacuumed to filter last evening before dark.
Backwashed filter 2-3 times yesterday and after vacuuming. Replaced DE on top of sand each time.

Question (concern about filter): My SAND filter pressure runs 14-15 right after backwash. I add 3/4 cup DE to skimmer to bump pressure up to 16. This morning, my pump still showed 16. It didn't increase in pressure over night which I am making the assumption that it didn't filter anything out over the night. Do I need to be concerned about this?
Over the past week I try to backwash around 20-22. Several times my pressure showed 25-26 before I would backwash. On occasion over the past week I would look down around my return jets. Mind you it is very cloudy, but at times it almost looked like I was seeing a white plum coming out of the jet. Again, it is very cloudy, so it is hard for me to tell. In the past this usually was air bubbles which it could be, or could it possibly be junk blowing through filter? This doesn't happen all the time. I THINK it might be doing this when the pressure gets in the 25-26 range, but again I'm not 100 % sure on this, just know that it looks like the return is blowing a white plum out of it.

 

[Trhod12]

Another thought about the ALK. Currently I am sitting about 70-80. I have had the pool since 2006, and in the past I usually found my sweet spot with ALK to be 100-120, which was where I kept it.
When I went to the SWG in 2019-20, I noticed I continually needed to add acid (or pH down) to keep the pH in range, which I never had to do with the BBB method. I was thinking about trying my ALK at a lower level this year to see if this made it so I didn't have to keep adding acid. So here is my question: Should I try bumping the ALK up to say 100 now to see if that helps with clarity??

I know ALK is a pH buffer and probably shouldn't be causative, I am just thinking out loud here. All my chemistry (with the exception of needing to bump my CYA up to 50-60 for SWG). My ALK is good, just lower than what historically I have run in my pool. Again, just trying to cover all bases here. I had done the SLAM last weekend, and started again yesterday. Last week I had the same 2 of the 3 benchmarks for completing the SLAM (except the clear water) as what I have this morning. Seems like I don't have active algae or I would be eating chlorine over night. I am starting to think something else might be going on here. Could it be low ALK??? Could the filter not be working??

Thanks for listening.

 

[IceShadow]

Alkalinity won’t help with clarity to my knowledge.

Have you checked the sand in your filter recently? If not it might be worth doing a deep clean of the filter to make sure all the crud that doesn’t always backwash away is gone.

 

[Newdude]

+1. Sand filters are the slowest at removing the dead algae. You may have killed it all, hence the reason for passing the OCLT, but the filtering it out stage tests every last SLAMer's patience. Most folks will go green to cloudy blue in a 1-3 days and then will spend a week or two filtering it all out. Every SLAM is different of course, just throwing it out there as a fairly common occurrence.

 

[duraleigh]

Welcome BACK to the forum!

Have I overlooked your CH test? Please provide it if you have not yet done so.

 

[skimmerswimmer]

Sand is the worst for filtration and takes the longest to clear a pool. I used to have a sand filter but switched to a quad DE and the water clarity is much better.

I wouldn't worry too much about alkalinity...once your SLAM is over, your pool will tell you where this value wants to be. Mine is usually in the 50-70 range. My PH likes to be about 7.5-7.7. I open the season early using a few tabs in a floater to raise the CYA over the chilly spring months, topped off with occasional bags of cal hypo to keep my levels up, then I switch to liquid chlorine 3 times per day via a stenner pump for the rest of the season as we start to swim and the temps heat up. I have to add more acid once we stop using the CYA tabs...maybe a half gallon per month.

 

[Trhod12]

Welcome BACK to the forum!

Have I overlooked your CH test? Please provide it if you have not yet done so.

No, you didn't over look that, I haven't watch that level for a long time since I have vinyl liner. My test chemicals are shot. I'll get that today. I figured I was safe with that, since the pool was almost empty when I started.

 

[duraleigh]

Very high Calcium levels can cause cloudiness. Why don't you update ALL your chemistry and give us a current set of results with goof chemistry. Everything we teach begins with good, accurate testing (stay out of the pool store)

 

[Orion7319]

Question (concern about filter): My SAND filter pressure runs 14-15 right after backwash. I add 3/4 cup DE to skimmer to bump pressure up to 16. This morning, my pump still showed 16. It didn't increase in pressure over night which I am making the assumption that it didn't filter anything out over the night. Do I need to be concerned about this?
Over the past week I try to backwash around 20-22. Several times my pressure showed 25-26 before I would backwash. On occasion over the past week I would look down around my return jets. Mind you it is very cloudy, but at times it almost looked like I was seeing a white plum coming out of the jet. Again, it is very cloudy, so it is hard for me to tell.

Your pressure should go up if your adding DE. You think your seeing DE shooting out of the returns? That would cause cloudiness if that is what’s happening. Are you seeing any sand in your pool? I suppose it’s possible you have some tunneling going on in your sand filter and it’s letting the DE though. If your able it might not be a bad idea to deep clean the sand filter. Other then that, I would quit adding the DE for a bit and see if it starts to clear. It also really can take a sand filter a few weeks to clear a really badly cloudy pool… it’s just you think your seeing DE coming out and your pressure isn’t going up.

Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

This post will walk you through the anatomy of a sand filter, and then provide a video at the end for how to deep clean your sand filter. The filter used in the photos and videos is a Hayward S180T top mount sand filter. The images are of a similar filter. Obviously not all filters are...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Trhod12]

Can some one confirm from the PS234 Test kit that Ben sold years ago. Was the Calcium Harness test the following Taylor chemicals:

1. Ca Buffer #10 R0010-A
2. Hardness Reagent #11 R0011L-A
3. Ca Indicator #11 R011-L-C

Working on getting a complete chemistry numbers again.

Orion-- When I added the DE pressure bump from 14-15 up to 16. This is normally how I add it. I have had the pump pressure increase up to 20-26 over the past week. I would backwash, rinse, then pressure was back down to 14-15 range. Then adding DE would bump to 16. I can't see the bottom of the pool to see if there is sand in it, but I have been running the robotic cleaner, and I don't see sand in it.

 

[Orion7319]

Can some one confirm from the PS234 Test kit that Ben sold years ago. Was the Calcium Harness test the following Taylor chemicals:

1. Ca Buffer #10 R0010-A
2. Hardness Reagent #11 R0011L-A
3. Ca Indicator #11 R011-L-C

Working on getting a complete chemistry numbers again.

Orion-- When I added the DE pressure bump from 14-15 up to 16. This is normally how I add it. I have had the pump pressure increase up to 20-26 over the past week. I would backwash, rinse, then pressure was back down to 14-15 range. Then adding DE would bump to 16. I can't see the bottom of the pool to see if there is sand in it, but I have been running the robotic cleaner, and I don't see sand in it.

Ok that sounds like it’s all working then, and your probably not getting DE in the pool. The Cal hypo can make the pool cloudy and the dead algae certainly will. I would keep up with slam but use the liquid chlorine only. How old is your test kit? None of these reagents have a shelf life of over 2 years really. You might want to buy a brand new one. TFTestkits.net

 

[duraleigh]

Your fairly close.

You need three chems from Taylor or TFTestkits (they're identical)

R-0010
R-0011L
R-0012

PS-234??? Wow! That kit is about 15 years old! Toss it!

 

[Trhod12]

Ok, chemistry from pool store vs my most recent numbers
FC: 14.6 14
CC: 0 0
pH 7.4 7.5
ALK 106 80
CH 148 n/a
CYA 27 30
Salt 2652 3100 (as per SWG)

There is very little sun today on the pool, looks like FC is holding.

My test chemicals were all replace at the end of last season with the exception of CH test. I haven't used this in years as it has never been a problem with my water and pool.

What are your thoughts??

 

[Trhod12]

Your fairly close.

You need three chems from Taylor or TFTestkits (they're identical)

R-0010
R-0011L
R-0012

PS-234??? Wow! That kit is about 15 years old! Toss it!

I have replaced the test chemicals several times over the years in the PS-234. Can't bear to part with the kit. Call me nostalgic.. LOL

thanks for the test chemical info. I will get them ordered today.