Abandoned Pool Build, Trying to finish

[Bperry]

In the last year I have seen support from contractors in general decline steeply. There is too much demand and so the interest in quality has dropped accordingly. This is very unfortunate for the consumers.

I have received some additional in-person evaluations that support the need to remove significant areas of excess mortar and improperly laid tiles that will prevent plaster.

The equipment situation remains poor with zero support from the pool equipment manufacturer in over 4 weeks now. I send weekly follow-ups to ask one basic questions: What specifically is required of the plumber and electrician who install the equipment to maintain my warranty? I'm unclear if I simply need state licensed electrician and plumber or if they need a manufacturer certification.

The gunite remains a question and the company who looked last suggested it was more imperfections they they typically see on a pool refurb job and therefore outside their expertise. he did suggest that a possible solution is to grind out the cracks, fill with hydraulic cement, acid wash the pool and then coat the whole thing with a water proof membrane.

Regarding payment schemes.... I agree on the 75% statement and also their motivations. The more we learn about the personal character of this PB the more sense their business makes.... in a bad way.

We have made no progress in the last month and are still searching for companies who will talk to us to help us get through.

We are expecting some news from our lawyer today but are not optimistic and do not yet have an end in sight.

Are you in any way capable of completing some of the work yourself? Electrical and plumbing is not outside the skill of a good DIY, and I’ve seen YouTube videos of guys installing plaster, but it’s certainly not a one person job.

 

[jimmythegreek]

I wouldnt bother waiting for the manufacturer. The warranty period is max 3 yrs. I've had 2 pumps ever fail in that timeframes out of hundred + installed. Get competent experienced plumber and electrician amd get it done. If you need guidance on what needs to be executed post detailed info and I'll explain what needs to be done amd have them execute. I'm willing to help you along. Pools are pretty simple if you understand the basics.

 

[carx7]

Are you in any way capable of completing some of the work yourself? Electrical and plumbing is not outside the skill of a good DIY, and I’ve seen YouTube videos of guys installing plaster, but it’s certainly not a one person job.

Yes and not. Technically yes. Timewise, not really. I've been doing all my own home renovations for years and with my current "Real" job, I'm just mentally fatigued over a project that was intended to support fun and relaxation for the family.

I wouldnt bother waiting for the manufacturer. The warranty period is max 3 yrs. I've had 2 pumps ever fail in that timeframes out of hundred + installed. Get competent experienced plumber and electrician amd get it done. If you need guidance on what needs to be executed post detailed info and I'll explain what needs to be done amd have them execute. I'm willing to help you along. Pools are pretty simple if you understand the basics.

Thanks for the feedback and I greatly appreciate the offer of help. As I learn more I may very well take you up on the offer. The 2/100 is the type of stat I like to see. Typical bathtub failure curve I expected. Interestingly, I was told that due to the volume of equipment I purchased that I qualified for a 5 year warranty..... thinking that was a line also.

As to my own next steps, I am still doing a bit of problem solving for a few key areas:

1) We are seeing more and more efflorescence. I've had a 2 plaster company look and suggest I contact the gunite company for warranty. Who is actually going to own the fact that they shot gunite in correctly? Sheesh. Suggestions for remedy on this include recommendation to acid wash the entire pool and then coat entire shell interior with a water proofing membrane to prevent seeping that might damage plaster downstream. Pics below. Thoughts?

2) I do not (presently) have a plumbing schematic for my equipment, my pipes were buried underground and need to be decoded, and the pad to be rebuilt/increased in size I believe. The way in which is was pouring is already washing out and the slab is left as overhang. The image below is mostly for trying to wrap my head around necessary sizing of the pad based on equipment I have and in reading manufacturer clearance etc. I"m sure there are specific things to consider with plumbing layout. I am will contacting the original plumber to see if he has/will give me schematics. I have steered away from contact him thus as I am trying to understand my legal rights as a homeowner. This PB is the sort of person who might try to sue ME for breach of contract if I start working on the pool.

3) I am also trying to get my hands on the rest of my equipment. I just learned this week that I do not have my spa bubbler, amongst other thing. I think this is (relatively) minor as I can just plumb the vertical PVC, but trying to sort out other aspects.

4) I need to tear out my morter and tile issues and replace them so that plaster can be installed uniformly. This feedback has come from 2 different companies... plus the obvious that the sharp tile cannot stay as it is.

 

[PoolGate]

Is there a contractor recovery fund in your area that would reimburse you for some of this? It sounds to me like the builder had more work than he could handle and stopped at his local big box store to pick up a couple of workers on his way to your job. Sad I hope it works out!

 

[jamjam]

Do you think that half row and mortar build up is hiding something?

 

[carx7]

Is there a contractor recovery fund in your area that would reimburse you for some of this? It sounds to me like the builder had more work than he could handle and stopped at his local big box store to pick up a couple of workers on his way to your job. Sad I hope it works out!

I've never heard of this. I'll have to look into it...

Unfortunately, based on everything we know which I can't even begin to put in this thread I truly believe the PB is running a scam that is finally catching up with them. I do realize without evidence that sounds like a well intentioned person in of his and her head, but the literally 100's of eamils we have of conflicting information aligned with 4 other people who either did, have, or are engaging attorney's over this PB is astonishing.

Do you think that half row and mortar build up is hiding something?

Fortunately, no. I think the guys laid the lower section of mortar believing this was part of the 6" water line. Since this is a faux negative edge, the 6" water line IS the lower edge of the negative edge. I'm sure the PB showed up and told his guys they weren't supposed to lay tile in that area so they didn't. I talked to them at the time and we actually agreed NOT to lay the 1/2 tiles and just slightly wrap the pebble around the corner. It was all under water anyway so I was ok with it. I had not stopped to process the issue with the unevenness of the mortar layer with the vertical wall. Then someone (I don't know who) decided to put the 1/2 tiles of course on backwards which is why I made an issue due to sharp edges of cut glass. Then, I had two company come look at the pool for plaster and state that plaster would look awful if placed over this and suggested it all be ripped out.

 

[allidb85]

Have you thought about contacting your local news network? I know in Orlando FL if the news picks up a story like this they go to great lengths to find the Contractors and hold them accountable. The broadcast alone usually brings out people who want to help fix the problem as well.

 

[clambert1273]

I have nothing real to add just wanted to let you know that I am sorry you are going through this, maybe find companies that specialize in remodels & work it from that route.. I know for my reno, the company doing mine specializes in reno and it's all they do. Might have a better chance that route was my only thought

 

[Bperry]

Seems like getting the legal issues figured out probably comes first, but I’d get rid of that half row of file and just run the plaster up to it.

I think I’d end up saying to the contractor, either come finish this, the way I tell you, or I’m going to sue and then finish it myself as an owner build. You might find that once some of the obvious tile and crack issues are repaired, you could find a plaster guy to come out and do the plaster.

 

[carx7]

Have you thought about contacting your local news network? I know in Orlando FL if the news picks up a story like this they go to great lengths to find the Contractors and hold them accountable. The broadcast alone usually brings out people who want to help fix the problem as well.

I have actually! I'm sooo close to moving that route, but trying to understand the legal ramifications of all of this. I want to be sure that I don't do anything that jeopardize myself. This is the kind of person who would come back and try to sue me for breach of contract for working on "his" pool. Ha. It's almost humorous at this point. I mean, since starting this project we learned the guy is literally a felon with a significant prior conviction.

I have nothing real to add just wanted to let you know that I am sorry you are going through this, maybe find companies that specialize in remodels & work it from that route.. I know for my reno, the company doing mine specializes in reno and it's all they do. Might have a better chance that route was my only thought

Thanks!

Seems like getting the legal issues figured out probably comes first, but I’d get rid of that half row of file and just run the plaster up to it.

I think I’d end up saying to the contractor, either come finish this, the way I tell you, or I’m going to sue and then finish it myself as an owner build. You might find that once some of the obvious tile and crack issues are repaired, you could find a plaster guy to come out and do the plaster.

Agreed on the legal aspect and plaster as well.

 

[Taylor1584]

I have actually! I'm sooo close to moving that route, but trying to understand the legal ramifications of all of this. I want to be sure that I don't do anything that jeopardize myself. This is the kind of person who would come back and try to sue me for breach of contract for working on "his" pool. Ha. It's almost humorous at this point. I mean, since starting this project we learned the guy is literally a felon with a significant prior conviction.

Thanks!

Agreed on the legal aspect and plaster as well.

You mention you have consulted an attorney. You might ask about Texas Residential Construction Liability Act (RCLA). I am working with a construction attorney, I hired the best one I could find, to deal with a contractor that walked off the job, I did not fire him. I have just won round one using the Texas Deceptive Practices Act(DPA). Contractor paid up on the deadline as he did not want to go to court. In both the DPA and RCLA if it goes to court and you win, you not only get what's owed, plus attorney fees, but in some cases double or triple damages. The big one is they don't want to go to court because that is a public record. I went after both the contractor and the company which in my case and maybe yours, the same entity.

You will have to look at the mess a bit longer as there are time constraints, but you do not have to allow him to fix the mistakes. I did at my cost pay for some fixes, to keep the job moving. I shouldn't have. I thought is would allow me to complete the project faster and it did not as it takes time to find someone else to step in, as you are finding out. So get the attorney working on the RCLA and wait him out. It's about 60 days total and then either he pays or you sue. If you have the documents, emails, invoices, cancelled checks, and your attorney knows construction law, you will win and you can nail him to the wall. Good luck.

 

[carx7]

My issues are getting worse. We've are now finding evidence that rebound material use used during gunite application and will need to work through that. I do have a contact who appears to be able to help me navigate most every aspect of the current situation and should know more next week.

In the mean time, the current PB is arguing that my equipment pad was poured in accordance with applicable standards.... The pad was poured over loosely stacked rocks which collapsed within a week and have left the corner overhanging a ledge.

Does anyone have those standards handy? Surely this is does not comply with something other than the obvious "Poor workmanship"

 

[PoolGate]

My issues are getting worse. We've are now finding evidence that rebound material use used during gunite application and will need to work through that. I do have a contact who appears to be able to help me navigate most every aspect of the current situation and should know more next week.

In the mean time, the current PB is arguing that my equipment pad was poured in accordance with applicable standards.... The pad was poured over loosely stacked rocks which collapsed within a week and have left the corner overhanging a ledge.

Does anyone have those standards handy? Surely this is does not comply with something other than the obvious "Poor workmanship"

Wow just no attempt at all in making a proper foundation. I assume there is no rebar in that pad. And due to the way it was poured over rocks, you can't lift it and make a proper foundation and put it back down. Not sure about code violations with a small, non-structural pad like that.

Is that your pool equipment pad? If so, where are the stubouts for the plumbing?

 

[carx7]

Sadly this is my equipment pad. I do think there is some rebar as there are scraps laying around. I did not supervise their installation as I did not really how bad things were going to get when this was poured.

The plumbing pipes are buried in that hole in front of the pad. They were all T'd underground for the pressure test on that gauge. Due to the fact this has been sitting for now 8-9 months the hole is filling with with run noff etc. I have no clue how they intend to tie all this together.... They didn't run electrical under the pad either.... Also, the pad was poured without consideration for the fact that I have 2 heaters and so it is far to small for my equipment.

If not code, I am trying to show that the equipment manual shows the pad poured on solid ground at least. In this case, they took rocks that I salvaged from other areas of my house (1970's build) to use for a retaining wall. I am dumbfounded that this is allowed and they are actually arguing this is ok.

 

[jamjam]

i think you can underpin that with some blocks dug into the hill on a proper base.

 

[carx7]

I agree.... just trying to find justification to make them fix it. Their legal response when i pointed this out months ago,

"(Name removed) has installed the pad according to industry standard. Once the pool is inspected by the City of (Name removed), the inspector can advise as to whether or not the pad was installed correctly. "

Now that I'm thinking... there may not be a code per se', but this must not be in accordance with industry standard.....

 

[PoolGate]

Hard to believe that "industry standard" is having the concrete pad cantilevered over the side of a grade.

 

[jamjam]

You should hire an independent inspector to write up a report on everything that was done sub standard

 

[carx7]

^^^ Agreed on all accounts.

 

[Bperry]

You should hire an independent inspector to write up a report on everything that was done sub standard

Someone that does that kind of work won’t care about an inspection that doesn’t have any teeth to it. I suspect this build is going to court.