Woes and Tribulations of the IC60

[MattM]

One expects a certain amount of trials and maintenance when owning a pool, and to a certain extent....I've done alright with my 7.5 year old backyard in ground masterpiece....

But, the mysteries of keep chlorine at reasonable levels during summer months here in San Diego are a constant chore.

I'm on my 2nd IC60 now, controlled with intellichem, and am exploring options before just replacing it.

The first IC60 died after 3 years, probably because I had it on too much. The 2nd has lasted 4 years.

The IC60 is probably on for 2-3 hrs/day during the winter and 12hrs/day during the summer (assume ~2600 hrs operation/year). And, yet for at least 4 months a year, I'm having to manually add 1-3 gallons of chlorine/week to the pool to handle summer UV rays and higher temperatures. The pool stays around 87 degrees from June to September and can peak at 90 degrees briefly in August.

CYA stays around 50 - I push it higher sometimes.

We do have an intellichem, but I don't pay attention to the ORP probe and have the SWG running on a fixed time on/time off schedule.

So, I'm wondering how I can improve things.....I could run the pump and SWG longer, but to keep 30 GPM that the SWG, Acid Dispenser, and skimmer seem to prefer, and to be conservative in case the filter needs cleaning, requires a pump RPM of around 1600-1700 which consumes 250-320 watts. I'm not sure I want that 24hrs/day. I might be able to bring it down to 1400-1500 rpm.

I'm not even sure if the IC60 is still the SWG to go with ....I'm stuck with pentair system so perhaps. The intellichem would support adding a chlorine canister to it, which might simplify the summer months....

What would you all suggest?

- - - Updated - - -

I should add that I shock the pool once/twice a year...and I do occasionally push the CYA to 60...but the intellichem isn't happy and I do tend to lose CYA quicker than expected. I found two leaking pipes/valves in the last year. Salt is kept between 3200-3700 according to the SWG.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Matt,

What output % are you running the SWCG?

At 24/7 and at 100% your cell should be producing 10 ppm of FC power day or .41 ppm per hour. 12 hours would give you an increase of 5 ppm, which should be plenty, sun or not.

Have you done an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test (OCLT)... Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

If you are adding liquid chlorine and "shocking" twice a year, my guess is that there is something in your water consuming the chlorine. The fact that you have a large cell just allows you to keep it somewhat under control.

I noticed that you did not post your numbers, nor told us at what level you are keeping your FC???

70% of all cell problems are not really the cell's problems.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[MattM]

If you are adding liquid chlorine and "shocking" twice a year, my guess is that there is something in your water consuming the chlorine. The fact that you have a large cell just allows you to keep it somewhat under control.

I noticed that you did not post your numbers, nor told us at what level you are keeping your FC???

70% of all cell problems are not really the cell's problems.

Jim,

The intellichem runs the IC60 at 100%. It just adjusts when the IC60 turns on/off based on a fixed cycle of 120 minutes on for every 20 minutes off, limited only by the pump on time -- currently 13hrs..but if I lower the pump speed, I might be able to get to 16hrs/day.

FC oscilates between 4-11, I target around 7-8 FC and add chlorine whenever FC falls below 5. CYA oscillates between 40-60 ppm.

The current SWG is over 3yrs old. I'll be replacing it soon, which is partly why I checked in here on TFP to see if I should change anything before proceeding.

Matt

 

[jblizzle]

CYA should not oscillate unless you are adding it.

One issue is that your CYA is lower than we recommend. 80ppm would better protect the FC from the sun and lower the SWG sun time required.

But I would do the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test before raising it to see if anything is in the water.

Right now you appear to be generating much more chlorine than should be required.

 

[cowboycasey]

do you have waterfalls or something that pushes your PH high on a daily basis? I guess that is why you have the intelichem and need to keep your CYA down below 60..

You have 2 choices and you are already following 1 of them, the other would be to raise your CYA to 80, turn off your intellichem and add acid manually to keep PH in control.

By raising your CYA you would save your SWG from running so long and keep you FC at an even level, mine stays within 1 FC day to day.. I have lowered my TA and this year I have only added acid once, my PH stays around 7.6 but I have nothing pushing my PH up...

 

[Jimrahbe]

Matt,

If the IntelliChem is running the cell at 120 on and 20 minutes off, then that is the same as running the cell at 85%.. But even at 85% that would still be 4.5 ppm in 13 hours. Low CYA will certainly cause the FC to burn off faster, but I would think 4.5 per day would be plenty.

When was the last time you inspected the cell for scale? Acid washing a cell can shorten the life, so how often have you been doing that?

Since you have ScreenLogic and an IntelliTouch, you are kind of stuck with the IC60, if you want full control. That said, unless the cell reports an issue or the lights indicate an issue, I suspect the cell is working fine. The are pretty dumb.. they tend to work or not work, they do not normally just get weaker.

I would do an OCLT and confirm that you are not losing any FC overnight, with the SWCG off of course.. then the next night I would do another OCLT with the SWCG on.. You would then know how much FC the SWCG generated in x hours and could compare that to what the SWCG should be producing.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Philo]

I live in San Diego with an IC60 also. I have Helix Water in East Co.

I keep my water CSI in the minus range but still get tons of scale build up inside the SWG. I have to use MA to clean 3x per year and there is considerable build up inside each time.

I don't have to to add liquid chlorine at all and I am currently running mine at 100% for 16 hours. That keeps me between 6-8 ppm.

I keep my CYA 50-70 and need to add 3.75 lbs 2x per year.

I also use 1/6 gal of 30% MA per week.

I installed it on 3/2016 and has 8,000 hours on it.

The flow switch was replaced once.

I keep an eye on ebay and on 2 separate occasions, was able to buy an extra IC60 pre-owned but new for $350 as back ups. I can't live without a SWG.....

 

[MattM]

Thanks for all the feedback, especially from Jim and Philo.

I should clarify that I do suspect there is a modest leak somewhere as I'm having to put in 1lb of CYA and 25 lbs of salt roughly every month for the last 6 months. In fact, the CYA has always been somewhat unstable...the longest I've been able to go without adding more is ~5 months and then it dropped from 70ppm to under 20ppm. This was even when salt ppm stayed stable... I've tried many ways of handling it by shocking the pool to ensure the SWG doesn't have to run harder than it needs to or also to ensuring FC doesn't get too high in normal operation which some have stated can cause CYA loss. Now, a certain amount of water gets splashed out by kids who swim a lot and by opening up a pool cover which pushes some water into a basin and I've replaced some problematic valves. I'm having someone come out next week to help me inspect pipes and confirm if a leak exists.

Still, for the time being, the maximum CYA I'll probably push is 60 just cause the intellichem refuses to run the SWG if the ORP sensor reads 800, and ORP becomes too unstable for high CYA values....it is at least somewhat stable in the 50-60 ppm range And, I'm probably stuck with intelichem, intelliflow, screenlogic, and intellichlor. I'm just wondering trying to ensure that I get the system working properly so that there is less effort managing FC next season and that the next intellichlor doesn't run any more than it needs to.

It sounds like the IC60 should be sufficient. Note that the acid dispensor tube for the intellichem is placed right before the SWG...maybe a foot or two before it. This always confused me as you don't want acid and chlorine to mix....but the pool construction company pointed out that pentair itself recommended it as it keeps the cell of the SWG clean and calcium free. And, indeed, the cell is always perfectly clean. Now, if it's reducing the life of the SWG cell.. I don't know. But I never have to clean out the SWG ever....every inspection is spotless.

I've increased the pump runtime to 16hrs and reduced the pump rpm to 1500.

 

[mknauss]

CYA degrades naturally over time. At elevated water temperatures and chlorine levels it degrades even quicker.

In summer I will lose ~15 ppm CYA per month.

 

[Philo]

Sometimes the flow switch can be little finicky at 1500 rpm's. Higher or Lower RMP's won't effect the chlorine out-put as long as the flow switch is activated.

The additional salt seems pretty high. Are you using the Taylor K-1766?

 

[Jimrahbe]

The RPM that turns on the flow switch is mainly dependent on the pool plumbing, and the type of pump. While my flow switch is always closed at 1200 RPM, I suspect if I added a heater, changed filters, or changed eyeballs on my pool returns, I'd have to find a new RPM that would work for me.

Thanks,

Jim R.