White scaling on my new waterfall & disagreement amount chemical levels

[Twolabs]

Thanks all for the suggestions. Late last week I got my TFT-100 "refills" and tested them against my original kit. The pH test came out identical (it has now risen to about 7.8). The TA was close, but there was a noticeable difference. My old reagents had TA at 70-80, and the fresh reagent had it at 90. Still not 160. So perhaps the freezing weather did have a small effect.

One thing I thought about it is, does it matter that there is no "scaling" on our waterline tile, flagstone beach entry, or flagstone spa overflow?

Still waiting on the sub to come up and take a look. I'll report back with what they have to say.

 

[duraleigh]

does it matter that there is no "scaling" on our waterline tile, flagstone beach entry, or flagstone spa overflow?

Well, it's an indicator that the problem is in the waterfall and not the pool water chemistry.

 

[Patrick_B]

My thoughts exactly. I still think the old reagents are good as those results could fall into the realm of sample size error/test variance. But, since you have replacement go ahead with those.

 

[pragmatic]

One thing I thought about it is, does it matter that there is no "scaling" on our waterline tile, flagstone beach entry, or flagstone spa overflow?

Yes, exactly why I mentioned scaling ("leeching"/"Efflorescence") or whatever it's called. I'm firm on it being a form of carbonate; most likely calcium. Maybe or maybe-not added in excess to aid the cement cure time. The waterfall is the perfect environment for formation of carbonates.

 

[zethacat]

Good tips, I'll try that zetha.

And also good catch on that. Aeration raises pH (for some reason it hasn't raised ours?) not TA.

If your TA is where it wants to be then it will slow down the PH rise even from aeration. Sometimes PBs make things up as they go along to avoid having to pay someone to come out again. It's called weasel wording. As an example, I had mortar and plaster smeared all over my tiles and PB chalked it up to hard water. Ultimately he never sent anyone out to remedy it. After acid washing them myself, I never saw one speck of it come back from my "hard" water.

 

[Twolabs]

*Update*

Well, I guess I should've knocked on wood when I said no scaling on the waterfall spillover or waterline tile.

The last week or so I noticed about three spots on the waterfall spillover that have turned into a white substance. It seems to be aligned beneath grout joints in the flagstone, so perhaps it has something to do with the mortar?

The waterline tiles are all completely clear except for underneath one of our large "boulders" on the beach entry. Directly underneath that boulder there is a 4 x 3 inch area that is white.

Finally this morning I decided to go out and do the acid test. I opened up a fresh bottle of MA and dipped a paper towel in there (only thing I had around on short notice). I dripped a few droplets on the white substance on the spillover = fizzle. I then went over to the waterfall and found an area that was fairly concentrated with the white substance, fizzle like hydrogen peroxide. Keep in mind practically the entire waterfall has this substance, as it has "faded" the colors of the waterfall, but there are areas where it is more noticable.

So now, this means its calcium scaling right? How can that be if my CH levels have never been over 250 and my pH says 7.8 or lower?

My wife is going to take a water sample to the store today to see what they come up with, who knows. But for right now I"m betting the PB is going to blame bad water chemistry if its calcium scaling.

 

[gtemkin]

I think this is a case of efflorescence. It's clearly associated with the mortar/grout lines. If it is efflorescence, it has very little to do with your water balance.

Suggest you Google "efflorescence" and click on the images that are linked. Also do some Googling on efflorescence, what it is, it's causes, and how to clean up efflorescence.

 

[Twolabs]

Test results are in from the pool store. It was carried in a plastic container with a top directly to the store (so about 20 minutes in the container). Their results are fairly close to my results:

FC: 2.19
CC: .3
pH: 7.8
TA: 72
CH: 228
CYA: 34
Copper: 0
Iron: .1
Saturation Index: .3

Gtemkin: I understand what you mean by it appear to be efflorescence, but from what I've read, if it's efflorescence then wouldn't it not fizzle with contacted with MA?

 

[pragmatic]

As I said, it's "definitely" coming (migrating) from the cement. The picture you posted was very clear and certainly recognizable as inorganic carbonate build-up. I would first try and seal anywhere feasible. May not work, but not much to lose. If not, clean the spots with HCl like you did, or just get used to the aesthetics of it-IMO it's not that bad looking and certainly natural

 

[gtemkin]

Gtemkin: I understand what you mean by it appear to be efflorescence, but from what I've read, if it's efflorescence then wouldn't it not fizzle with contacted with MA?

This article mentions the mechanism in which efflorescence results in calcium carbonate deposits.

http://www.concreteconstruction.net/concrete/what-causes-efflorescence-and-how-do-you-remove-it.aspx

 

[justinfrancisjudd]

Hey Two Labs,

Any luck with the clean up? Did you just use ma diluted?

I am having the same issues on a few cracks in the epoxy sealer on my slide and a few spots on the grotto. Mostly where water would splash not directly in the water. I have one spot in the corner of my pool by an artificial boulder and the spa spillover.

Im thinking my issues are the same as yours where its resulting from the concrete they used to make the artificial structure, mine was shotcrete, then a moisture sealer, then plastic cement for all the finishing work and finally the paints they used, which seem to be holding up good so far.

Anyhow I have cleaned mine with everything from CLR/limeaway (by recommendation of the grotto builder) to vinegar, both have worked but its came back right after slowly. I was afraid to use ma to try not to damage the epoxy thats in mostly good shape on the slide.