Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

@Not4You,
I was in the same boat about 3 months ago, with CYA in the ~200ppm range. And as it was July in Phoenix, I was even more concerned about letting my plaster dry out. What I did was start pumping water out as soon as the sun went down and let it go until I was ready for bed. Depending on how late I stayed up, this was about 6-9 inches of water each night, which if I remember correctly was about 15% of my total water each night. When I went to bed I shut off the pump and turned on the hose to help refill the pool faster than the autofill could. I did some preliminary checks/measurements to see how fast it pumped down and how fast it filled back up with the hose to ensure I was not going to overdrain or overfill it in the time that I had. Since there was no direct sun, and the water was only a couple of inches below the tile I figured it wouldn't dry out quickly enough to cause damage.

For my pool, this 15% per day took about 10 days of doing this to get my VYA from 200ppm down to about 40ppm, and ended up taking about 20,000gal of water for my 13,500gal pool. But in the height of summer, that was about my only option, and even with that much water swapped out, my bill only went up about $40 from normal. With the current lower temperatures and shorter days I'm sure you could even be more aggressive with how much water you exchange each day. Good luck!
 
Matt,

I have. I can't guarantee I don't have an algae issue is my problem. The business I saw that does this states that you cannot have algae for them to do the service. Makes sense to not want to contaminate those filters.

My filters went to really poor flow a few weeks back. We have a lot of fine dust out here, and I can't tell if what was in the pool was just dust or a combination of dust and mustard algae.

This prompted me to get the test kit and get this started. I knew the cya would be high, just wasn't sure how high. Now I know I have extreme risk for algae until I bring it down.

Long story short, I think I have to drain.

Thanks

- - - Updated - - -

Joe,

Agreed, I may be saved by the lower temperatures. I'm never in town that many days in a row is my issue.

Thanks
 
It certainly doesn't have to be sequential days. You just need to remove a given volume of water, replacing it with water with no CYA, to get where you want to get. If you did it just for the 2 weekend days each week, it would just take you about 5 weeks to get there. The bigger chunks of water you remove at a time, the more water efficient it will be. So remove as much as you're comfortable with at a time, and then test to see where you are. That will give you an idea of what percentage of the CYA you can remove with each batch of water.
 
Alright. The temp is pretty low here in the 70s with some rain and cloud cover. I do see some algae in there, so I started the drain process. I'm just going for it. Only took a couple of days to fill it completely the first time with a single hose. I'm going to use two hoses and the autofill this time. Probably run one of the hoses using two through a T fitting.

I'm using that now during the drain process and it bumped my flow rate from a little over 4 gal/min to 6.5. I'll take it, lol.

Thanks for all the advice, Hope to have it full again by late saturday night. Then I get to rebalance. I didn't directly see anything on how to do that yet, but I'll keep looking.

The water line has pretty severe calcium deposits, but I just don't have the time to clean it off right now.
 
It certainly doesn't have to be sequential days. You just need to remove a given volume of water, replacing it with water with no CYA, to get where you want to get. If you did it just for the 2 weekend days each week, it would just take you about 5 weeks to get there. The bigger chunks of water you remove at a time, the more water efficient it will be. So remove as much as you're comfortable with at a time, and then test to see where you are. That will give you an idea of what percentage of the CYA you can remove with each batch of water.

Joe,

What CYA do you shoot for out here in the phoenix area? My pool is in full sun.

I'm going to replace 80-90% of the water. Calculator said 80% to get to 50 CYA 85% to get to 30. Given the CH and the algae I think I have, I was just going to go ahead and replace most of it.

Shape makes figuring out exact amounts difficult, so I figure I'll overshoot to be safe.

Can't use more chlorine than it needed with CYA >200.

Thanks
 
Good morning pool people,

The pool is almost empty. I'm not at risk for the pool to pop, so is there any reason for me NOT to drain this thing nearly all the way? I've already sprayed down the exposed surface with my sweeper nozzle I use to clean the cart filters. My pressure washer has a mix setting that makes it almost impossible to keep detergent out of the line, so I'm not planning to use it.

I've also brushed down the surface a couple of times.

I'd rather know my CYA level is nice and low to start with after all this work.

Water cost between 80 and 100% of 11,200 gallons is inconsequential cost-wise. The initial fill increased our water bill by $25.

Thoughts? Thanks!
 
I, for one, will NOT tell you or anyone to drain their pool as I do NOT want to be the one that gets in "trouble" if/when a pool pops! LOL

It is up to YOU and you alone. You know your area and conditions..................so do what you think is right for you and your pool.

Kim
 
Wow! $25?!?!? That's pretty cheap for metro Phoenix area. Tucson water would easily be over $100 and probably more than that since baseline usage would already put you up into the expensive tiered rate.

Anyway, as long as your water table is well below the pool, you should be ok. But you really don't have to drain it all the way.

Good luck,
Matt


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Wow! $25?!?!? That's pretty cheap for metro Phoenix area. Tucson water would easily be over $100 and probably more than that since baseline usage would already put you up into the expensive tiered rate.

Anyway, as long as your water table is well below the pool, you should be ok. But you really don't have to drain it all the way.

Good luck,
Matt


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I lived in the Tucson area for 18 years. I did not have a pool, but water is definitely treated differently between Pima and Maricopa Counties. I don't abuse it, though you know there are people who believe nobody should have a pool or grass, etc. Battle will never end.

I've heard of filling a pool down there costing several hundred dollars. It made me expect that here, boy was I pleasantly surprised.

http://www.queencreek.org/departments/utilities/water/water-rates-and-fees

It's $2.37 per 1,000 gallons from 1K to 20K gallons, thankfully.
 

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I, for one, will NOT tell you or anyone to drain their pool as I do NOT want to be the one that gets in "trouble" if/when a pool pops! LOL

It is up to YOU and you alone. You know your area and conditions..................so do what you think is right for you and your pool.

Kim

Understood Kim. It's already about 90-95% empty. Getting ready to flip to refill mode. What's the best way to do this? I was planning to just keep the pump running, as I won't 100% empty it and the floor drain is the lowest point, of course.

If you have a quick read link on balancing a new fill, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!
 
I wouldn't start up the pump until you are nearly full. With an empty pool the pump will have to work pretty hard to keep prime just from the main drain with almost no water pressure in the pool and no resistance on the return lines. Just do a wall to wall brush every few hours. Get a few ounces of bleach in there each brushing. It will only take a day or so.
 
I am going to start you with the basic and work you up to the fine details.

Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

Pool School - Recommended Levels

Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

Pool School - Determine Pump Run Time

Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule

You are going to LOVE this one! It does all of the work with how much of what to add to get to your goal level! Make sure to change it to "Using TFP" towards the bottom. It might take a little playing around with to get a good feel for how it works.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

I hope I did not overwhelm you......take a bite and chew it slowly until you are ready to take the next bite LOL

Kim
 
I am going to start you with the basic and work you up to the fine details.

Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

Pool School - Recommended Levels

Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

Pool School - Determine Pump Run Time

Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule

You are going to LOVE this one! It does all of the work with how much of what to add to get to your goal level! Make sure to change it to "Using TFP" towards the bottom. It might take a little playing around with to get a good feel for how it works.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

I hope I did not overwhelm you......take a bite and chew it slowly until you are ready to take the next bite LOL

Kim

Pool is full! Got it done in about 7 hours. High flow splitter with two hoses on one bib, the autofill and another hose off of the other. Went fast.

I have read some of these but need to go through them again, of course. Already got some great value bleach. Will read to figure out which thing to balance first, etc. I've read conflicting things.

I have used the calculator to quickly tell me how much water I needed to replace after I saw how much chlorine I needed, lol!

Appreciate the help!
 
I know no one is likely swimming but CYA in the water is a primary additive. CYA moderates the strength of the chlorine you add to the water by holding the chlorine in reserve and lowering the hypochlorous acid levels. If you have 0 ppm CYA then, at a pH of 7.5, roughly half of the FC you add is hypochlorous acid. At 3ppm FC you'd have 1.5ppm HOCl which would be really reactive to anything in the pool.

So get the pH set to 7.2 then add at least 20ppm CYA. Then bring your FC up to shock levels and do a SLAM. You can fool around with the other parameters later.


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I know no one is likely swimming but CYA in the water is a primary additive. CYA moderates the strength of the chlorine you add to the water by holding the chlorine in reserve and lowering the hypochlorous acid levels. If you have 0 ppm CYA then, at a pH of 7.5, roughly half of the FC you add is hypochlorous acid. At 3ppm FC you'd have 1.5ppm HOCl which would be really reactive to anything in the pool.

So get the pH set to 7.2 then add at least 20ppm CYA. Then bring your FC up to shock levels and do a SLAM. You can fool around with the other parameters later.


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I understand that it needs 30-50ppm cya and I'll get that set. I did such an aggressive empty just to make sure I knocked down the concentration. I think it was well over 200ppm, so I wanted to just make sure I got it down. The water smelled like trichlor tabs. Correct, nobody will be swimming.

Thanks for the tips.
 
JN,

This site is just full of info! I had no idea there were RO systems available for pools. Where do you get them or are they something you have a service do for you? I would guess they need a carbon filter upstream to remove chlorine?

Chris
 
JN,

This site is just full of info! I had no idea there were RO systems available for pools. Where do you get them or are they something you have a service do for you? I would guess they need a carbon filter upstream to remove chlorine?

Chris

Service, I was unaware until recently myself. I do think I will replumb my autofiller to the water softener at some point. Water is super hard here.
 
JN,

This site is just full of info! I had no idea there were RO systems available for pools. Where do you get them or are they something you have a service do for you? I would guess they need a carbon filter upstream to remove chlorine?

Chris

It's typically a service offered by pool companies. The equipment required to RO water usually involves high pressure pumps that either run off the customers electric or by diesel generator. They are big rigs and require the pool owners water to be algae free and have low FC (but they typically add a dechlorination stage anyway). It typically achieves an 85% recovery ratio (you'll need to make up 15% of your volume with fill water) and should have a better than 95% rejection ratio for whatever's in your water (salt, calcium, CYA, etc).

It is usually more expensive than water replacement.


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