What are these? Help me understand my pool

[DNadig]

New pool to me and I'm navigating the steep learning curve. I'm getting a pretty firm grasp as to what everything is and how it all works, but I do have one question. We have a 2 pump system to accommodate for our in floor cleaning system and 4 skimmers.

Pump 1...aka Pool Pump, "sucks" water from 4 sources: 3 of the skimmers and the canister filter by the pool which I'm pretty sure draws water from the main drain in the floor. Return water for this pump goes to wall mounted down jets and also 2 fixed floor jets that shoot water in the direction of the main drain.

Pump 2...aka Cleaner Pump, sucks water from 2 sources: the Fourth skimmer and also the the main drain, but bypasses the canister filter. Return water for this pump goes to the in floor jet system.

There are 3 wall mounted circles I"m trying to sort out what they are. Please view the 2 photos below:

Red circle is at the bottom of the pool in the deepest portion. As far as I'm aware, this is the "main drain". Both pumps "suck" water from here. Pool pump sucks the water from here via the canister filter and the Cleaner Pump sucks water from here directly (no inline filter). As far as I'm aware, the green circle is a secondary to the main drain. The suction from the main drain also has suction here. This is to prevent a child from getting sucked and stuck onto the main drain.

On a different wall, I have the 2 yellow circled wall mounted disks. They are identical and on a different wall from the green circle disk. What are these yellow circled disks???

Ultimately why I'm going down this rabbit hole is I'm trying to troubleshoot my infloor cleaning system......I just have super low suction in my main floor drain. I can nudge a leave within an inch of the drain and doesn't even get sucked into the drain. I'm beginning to wonder if Both yellow And the Green wall mounted disks are sharing suction with the floor drain (not just the green one) and as such the shared suction is split to many ways to result in proper Red Drain suction.

Maybe I'm completely off altogether on this. Hoping someone can steer me in the right direction.

 

[DNadig]

As an alternative thought: Maybe the yellow circles are the "main drain" for the Cleaner Pump while the Green/Red circles are the "main drain" for the Pool Pump???

 

[ajw22]

Pumps should not share drains.

I think one pump uses the main drain on the floor and the other pump uses the drains on the wall.

Cleaner pump picks off water from the pool pump return plumbing on the equipment pad.

 

[DNadig]

Pumps should not share drains.

I think one pump uses the main drain on the floor and the other pump uses the drains on the wall.

This make soooo much more sense than what was in my head before. Rookie mistake.

Cleaner pump picks off water from the pool pump return plumbing on the equipment pad.

Sorry....not following what you are saying here. What do you mean?

 

[ajw22]

Sorry....not following what you are saying here. What do you mean?

Show me pics of your equipment pad and pumps.

 

[DNadig]

Here is a photo. Most of my equipment is labeled with half falling off stickers....but here is what they say.

 

[ajw22]

Never mind. I thought you had a different type of cleaner pump.

 

[DNadig]

Gotcha....while I have you on the line......on both pump output lines, there is a water spigot installed.....right where the arrows are pointing.

What is the purpose of those?

 

[ajw22]

Gotcha....while I have you on the line......on both pump output lines, there is a water spigot installed.....right where the arrows are pointing.

What is the purpose of those?

They are used during construction to pressure test the pipes and can be used to drain water.

 

[DNadig]

Ah. That makes sense.

So now that I'm having a greater understanding of my system......I now return back to the issue that got me digging into all this in the first place. My in floor cleaning system doesn't seem to actually "clean" any of the debris......it just blows it around. My floor main drain just doesn't seem to have the suction needed to be helpful....a leave just a few inches away doesn't get sucked in. I'm making a big assumption that the floor main drain is connected to the canister valve on my Pool Pump. That is shared with 3 other skimmers. I already have them turned down a little (as you can see in the photo), but hesitate to turn them down too much.

I'm wondering if this is more of an issue of design flaw than valve/pump setting.

 

[ajw22]

@proavia understands the IFCS and how much you can expect it to do.

 

[DNadig]

Cool...thanks.

"and how much you can expect it to do"....haha...yeah. Maybe my expectations are just too high? I sure hope not!

hopefully @proavia has some insight.

I really appreciate your assistance working with this rookie today.

 

[proavia]

How old is the pool?
Any idea who the pool builder was? If so, contact them for a schematic of the plumbing.

Do you happen to know the manufacturer of your IFCS?
Look at the two water distribution valves - any names/numbers on them?
Show a picture of the IFCS heads in the pool - maybe by the entry steps. And see if there is any names/numbers on them as well.

Post a few more pics of the equipment pad from a few different angles so we can get a better idea of the plumbing, etc.

Even with an IFCS, the main drains won't appear to suck leaves in from even a few inches away. But if the leaves get closer they will eventually go into the drains.

Does the IFCS pump always run if the main pool pump is on or does the IFCS pump run without the need for the main pump to be on?

If there is a lot of debris on the pool floor, the IFCS will take quite a while to remove it. If there are a good number of leaves, use a net to remove them. The IFCS isn't necessarily for major cleanup jobs - it's for daily cleanup.

I always thought it strange that builders have a separate IFCS pump (from the main pump) and don't filter the water after the pump and before it returns to the pool.
It's possible that the wall drains are hooked to the IFCS pump, but them you'd need to run the other pump to get the dirt and leaves the IFCS pushes toward them.

After we know a bit more about your IFCS and pool, we can better assist.

Fill out your signature with pool, pool equipment (manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info.
This assists us in better helping you without the need to ask you for this important information each time.

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[DNadig]

@proavia, so sorry for the delayed reply....was a busy week. I did have one major discovery since I last typed. When diving in my pool and swimming down to the main drain, I felt zero sucition. I even grabbed a sunken leaf near by and held it right by the main drain and it just floated away...no suction. I discovered my main drain was completely clogged. After going to the pump house, I closed the valves for all skimmers so that 100% suction was to the main drain.....I could hear the clog clear. I had emptied the canister filter that morning and checked it right after I heard that noise, and there was a wad of leaves the size of my head inside there.

After that, I did have suction down in my main drain. So now, I'm left with a trial and error game of trying to sort how to split the suction sharing form the skimmers vs main drain.

To answer your previous questions:
Pool is new. We are the ones that had it installed. I have asked the builder (who is a highly reputable builder) and they said that their plumber usually doesn't have plumbing blue prints......he does so many pool plumbing jobs that he just needs the pool design drawing to know how to properly plumb it.

Sorry, I'm not at my house at the moment to attach more photos, but everything we have is pentair. Pumps/valves/etc. I have no reason to think out IFCS is any other brand.

Even with an IFCS, the main drains won't appear to suck leaves in from even a few inches away. But if the leaves get closer they will eventually go into the drains.

Very good to know. As mentioned in this post, I even held a leaf in the opening of the main drain and no suction....but after the clog was cleared I did have suction.

Does the IFCS pump always run if the main pool pump is on or does the IFCS pump run without the need for the main pump to be on?

The way the pool is currently programmed....yes. If I have everything turned off and I toggle on the IFCS, both pumps turn on. I could change the programming, but from what I gather with my plumbing, in order for me to get any suction on my floor mounted main drain, I need the main pump to run.

If there is a lot of debris on the pool floor, the IFCS will take quite a while to remove it. If there are a good number of leaves, use a net to remove them. The IFCS isn't necessarily for major cleanup jobs - it's for daily cleanup.

Ok....this is super helpful. I think I did have slight over expectations.

It's possible that the wall drains are hooked to the IFCS pump, but them you'd need to run the other pump to get the dirt and leaves the IFCS pushes toward them.

I'm pretty sure this is my case.....we hit a cold snap here in TX so no swimming this weekend, but I know my next set of experiments to determine this. This would also lead to your previous question. As my computer is currently setup; when the IFCS is turned on, it DOES also turn on the main pool pump.

 

[proavia]

@proavia, so sorry for the delayed reply....was a busy week. I did have one major discovery since I last typed. When diving in my pool and swimming down to the main drain, I felt zero sucition. I even grabbed a sunken leaf near by and held it right by the main drain and it just floated away...no suction. I discovered my main drain was completely clogged. After going to the pump house, I closed the valves for all skimmers so that 100% suction was to the main drain.....I could hear the clog clear. I had emptied the canister filter that morning and checked it right after I heard that noise, and there was a wad of leaves the size of my head inside there.

After that, I did have suction down in my main drain. So now, I'm left with a trial and error game of trying to sort how to split the suction sharing form the skimmers vs main drain.

Which pump had the wad of leaves after clearing the main drain - the pump hooked to the filter or the pump for the IFCS?

To verify that the side wall drain are plumbed to the IFCS pump suction and that the main drains (floor) are plumbed to the filter pump suction, run only one pump and see if the side wall or main floor drains have any suction.

Look on the IFCS heads and water distribution valve for clues as to the manufacturer.
A while ago, Pentair bought A&A Manufacturing, but I think it is presently still being run as a separate operation - so the heads may say A&A on them. If so, contact A&A and ask them for a plumbing diagram as they design (or at least used to design) each system for each pool.