Water will not clear!! Aghh!

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Maybe your setup is working perfectly, but the effects of vacuuming have a cancelling effect.

When you block/restrict the suction side for any reason, your pressure should go down. When you block the pressure side for any reason your pressure should go up. When you do both at the same time, they cancel each other out and your pressure doesn't change.

Try this: vacuum/clean your pool as usual until you get the brown puff coming out and the flow slowing down. Clean the skimmer basket, but don't backwash, and then turn the pump back on without the vacuum attached. Then tell us what the pressure does.
 
Bama Rambler said:
First I'd like to say that there are probably thousands of us who keep our pools perfectly clear with only one skimmer and return.
I know you're right, Dave, and I didn't mean to cast aspersions. It just seems to me that it would take a lot longer to clear, because it appears to me that the cloudiest water that would benefit most from filtering is, generally, below most skimmers' openings. But, obviously the single skimmer concept works well enough or there wouldn't be as many pools sold with that design!

PFE - If your pump basket is getting clogged with leaves during vacuuming, you might benefit from an in-line leaf/debris catcher like this one: [attachment=0:354ggdmn]leaf catcher.jpg[/attachment:354ggdmn]

Good luck!
 

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Getting There!

Jeetyet said:
When the pump strainer basket is NOT clogged do you notice an air pocket swirling under the clear plastic cover or any air bubbles coming out of the pool returns? During normal filtering mode (10psi), if you run water over/around the clear plastic cover and pump body below as well as all the pipes, fittings, plugs, and valves on the suction lines feeding into the pump does the filter pressure reading change at all?

Is this a crack, or something else?

[attachment=0:eek:8g7wyms]closeup.jpg[/attachment:eek:8g7wyms]
No pockets but there are a few smaller bubbles swirling around that she said are usually normal but nothing large. During normal filtering there are no air bubbles only when vac'ing, I checked everything with the garden hose and there was no pressure change only minor fluttering of maybe half a psi...I put a brand new ring seal on the clear cover last week. Speaking of when I remove that cover and the system drains itself should I be re-priming with a bucket before I replace that clear cover? It takes the pump a good 30sec at least to re-prime the system and during that duration I would assume the pump runs dry and hot (the sticker on the electric motor casing itself says self-priming but I do not think it is referring to the pump).

Yes that is a crack and I just checked it, that splitter valve that allows you to regulate the suction between the deep and shallow ends is completely closed on the capped tube and open on the running tube according to her. There is no regulation on the jets however the closer jet on the deep end is much stronger than the jet on the shallow end I am not sure if that is because there is only 1 suction source right now?

Smykowski said:
Maybe your setup is working perfectly, but the effects of vacuuming have a cancelling effect.

When you block/restrict the suction side for any reason, your pressure should go down. When you block the pressure side for any reason your pressure should go up. When you do both at the same time, they cancel each other out and your pressure doesn't change.

Try this: vacuum/clean your pool as usual until you get the brown puff coming out and the flow slowing down. Clean the skimmer basket, but don't backwash, and then turn the pump back on without the vacuum attached. Then tell us what the pressure does.
Well the only time it reads below 10 is when I vac and that I believe is the same diameter flex tube as the PVC draining from the bottom of the strainer so in theory I don't understand why its 10 when drawing from the strainer and 6 when I remove the basket and plug in the hose which I run through the flapper door. To me vac should be 10 since I am drawing the same amount of water as a single skimmer box, you may be right about the cancelling out of each other. The scenario you just pitched has already occurred; I vac until I get dark jet water and the pressure reads 15+ then I emptied the skimmer basket on the pump and the pressure goes back down to 6 but the jets remain dark...so there is no way for me to tell when it is time to back wash by reading the gauge only by monitoring the jets!


On the plus side I have not been there in 2 days when I vac'ed and back washed continuously and she kept up with the shocking and back washing while I was away. Since I am going against what everyone has been telling us at this point and back washing constantly the last day I was there and a few since...I went back today and the pool is now half clear I can see the sloping sides and some dark spots on the floor under the jet on the shallow end so obviously the sand was clogged overnight and dead algae has been falling in the shape of a jet pattern on the floor so I back washed and it was very dark but this is now working! The water is blue not green and deff clearing up, I sucked any dark spots on the floor directly to back wash then returned it to filter and scanned the bottom, back washed again before I left it was dark in the bubble already. :whoot:
 
She was told by the pool company it could not be drained or the walls would fold in, I told her I'm sure half way was okay. Next time I do a pool this bad that is deff the way I am going to go just vac all the junk out and refill the pool.
 
The reason I asked about the crack was twofold.

One, with your unusual symptoms relating to pressure readings you have to look for unusual causes therefore I was going on the theory that there is air getting into the system from SOMEWHERE on the suction side that somehow gets closed off when the pump basket gets clogged with leaves. A hairline crack in the pump body, a leaky lid gasket or drain plug, or something to do with the plumbing between the pump and the pool are some possibilities I can think of where air could be getting in. There may be other obvious ones I'm overlooking as I'm no expert on anything to do with pools much less pumping systems. I've always been pretty good at problem solving though and your case definitely presents a challenge.

Secondly, I'm wondering if the crack in that fitting got there after the lines were capped or if it was there previously. You mentioned the pool company had told her it would cost thousands to repair the "problem" before it was decided to just cap that line and you figured you could bust up the concrete at the skimmer and fix it for much less. I'm wondering if the crack was the only problem from the start and there may not even be a problem at the skimmer. Have you considered that possibility?

Not fully knowing the history of this situation here's one possible off-the-wall explanation for your problems that you might want to explore further. The crack in the fitting on the line thats capped is somehow allowing air into the system even with the valve supposedly having it isolated. Its also possible the cracked fitting was the original reason the line was capped instead of a problem further upstream. Unless I could see an obvious problem with that line at the skimmer end of it I think I would replace the cracked fitting, reconnect the line, fire it up, and see what happens. You could kill two birds with one stone, or, create a worse problem. In the latter case though, as long as the valve is still in the system you could just close that line off again and be none the worse for wear as that fitting would have to be replaced eventually anyway if the skimmer problem is ever repaired.

As for your priming question, yes you should add water before you replace the pump cover and fire it up. The pump is self-priming but you should attempt to get as much water in the lines as you can, although you'll probably find that it runs out just about as fast as you can pour it in. It may not be the "best" way, and perhaps an expert will chime in here, but here's what I do... catch some water in a bucket, put the water hose in the pump and let it run for a bit, pour the water in from the bucket until it starts to overflow, then quickly close off the valves on the suction lines, top the water off in the pump and tighten down the cover, open the valves, and fire it up.

Other things I wanted to discuss will have to wait until later as this post has already became a novella. :)
 
pinkfloydeffect said:
She was told by the pool company it could not be drained or the walls would fold in, I told her I'm sure half way was okay. Next time I do a pool this bad that is deff the way I am going to go just vac all the junk out and refill the pool.

Draining a pool with a vinyl liner runs the risk of the liner shifting/deforming/detaching. I'm pretty sure the recommendation here is drain no lower than the point of leaving a foot of water in the shallow end to lessen that risk.
 
Inhaled Shock

I found a 25lb bucket of shock in her shed from years ago that was probably opened once so I opened it to see if it was any good....bad choice! I got a cloud of fine dust in my face and I was inhaling a breath and it burnt for about a min and then went away, the next day (or day after I forget) I felt like I had a chest cold coming on and then yesterday I woke up and my chest feels tight, wheezy, and my throat is sore but more my adams apple not my throat itself. Hurts to swallow and I keep burping and they hurt they feel like a gas bubble traveling up my back every time I burp and when it makes it to the top it moves from my back to my chest when it finally comes out. It seems to have trigger some sort of acid reflex feels like I am being choked a little. This is day 2 of these symptoms I am going to go to the hospital tomorrow because these symptoms are just too weird, I read online chlorine poisoning can trigger pneumonia.
 

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I showed them pictures of the container and I spent 5hrs in the ER while they sat on the phone with poison control, swabbed my throat, took 7 viles of blood, two X-rays, made me drink GI stuff that tasted like Crud and numbed out my neck.

Turns out I ended up with a viral infection with white dots all over my throat and mouth called "hands, feet, and mouth disease" which shocked me because I am OCD super clean wash my hands 20 times a day, etc.

They said what probably happened was since I am a very healthy person the concentrated chlorine cloud I inhaled bleached my insides which knocked out my immune system without "good" bacteria which then led to me catching this viral disease, I should sue this lady but I am not going to...but probably could, she is too nice though.
 
nedchavez said:
I should sue this lady but I am not going to...but probably could, she is too nice though.
Wow.
Just!
Wow!

lol what I am not out to make enemies, but she seems to know a lot about these chemicals...I don't even own a pool this is all new to me. I now know precautions need to be taken when handling and dealing with this stuff, which is somewhat dangerous.
 
From what I've read about this disease the time between infection and onset of symptoms is 3 to 7 days so I dunno if the chemical exposure could've had anything to do with it. Do you have fever, headache, and loss of apetite? A rash with blisters on the palms of your hands, soles of your feet, and possibly on your buttox? If not, then I would suggest you do a little research on what you were diagnosed with and perhaps get a second opinion. I'm not making lite of your condition, just wondering if you got the right diagnosis. I won't bore you with how I feel about Pool Stores, but, I feel the very same way about doctors. :rant: Wishing you a swift recovery.
 
It was about 2 days apart before my symptoms came on, I do not have a rash on my hands, butt or feet but only my throat. Mild headacke and mild temp, somewhat loss of appetite.

I really do not know what to think but at least they were able to tell my lungs are not filling with fluid or I'm not on course for pneumonia or something like that. This is a disease children catch it is very rare in adults so my immune system must have been way down for me to catch this?

I agree just from the pool ppl I have dealt with during this project alone they all say different things, which is why I have 2 doctors I just never confirmed one of them was my PCP and now I go to which ever one I want.
 
This link gives some guidelines for distinguishing between a bacterial infection vs. a chemical reaction. In your case, neither one really applies since the chemical didn't cause external symptoms other than the initial burning. It does seem plausible that the chlorine you inhaled killed off beneficial organisms, though the chlorine would then get used up so they could re-populate when reintroduced.

As for the virus, unless it was already present and being kept in check or that you coincidentally were exposed to it right after the incident (that's what they are claiming -- quite a coincidence), you wouldn't get it spontaneously. That part sounds odd. This link to the CDC website shows symptoms of Hand, Foot and Mouth disease. Note that in this link on the CDC site regarding transmission of the disease that "Some people, especially adults, who get infected with the viruses that cause hand, foot, and mouth disease may not develop any symptoms." So perhaps someone close to you had the virus without symptoms. Given all the tests you had and doctors looking at you, I would presume they diagnosed this correctly.

As an FYI for those now thinking about this disease and possible transmission from people using swimming pools, this link shows that the 3-log CT (99.9% kill) value for chlorine disinfection of coxsackievirus B5 (CVB5) (a variant of Coxsackievirus A16 that is the most common cause of the disease) was 2.3 to 7.9 at 5ºC (this link gave a CT of 11.5; this link gives around 6 and also shows that enterovirus is around 1) so with 0.1 ppm FC with no CYA equivalent, this is roughly 23 to 79 minutes. Not a fast kill, but not horribly slow either. Person-to-person transmission of the disease in recreational water is still possible if near an infected swimmer, but then you could also get it from someone coughing or sneezing nearby as well.
 
I have to say catching this right after the shock exposure is VERY coincidental I have never been vulnerable to diseases and infections before EXP a simple child's disease. I spend zero time around children I don't really understand how I got this, I am a very clean person which makes me think that chlorine killed something beneficial.

I deff have not developed anything other than throat sores, not in the front of my mouth, hands or feet. I read if you never got it as a child you are more prone to it as an adult (like chicken pox). I tried asking how they diagnosed or identified HFMD asking if they found something in all that blood they took or if it was a guess and they did not really answer my question.

You think this disease could have been living in the pool all this time the last 2 years and maybe THAT is how I caught it working on this pool for the last 2 weeks??
 

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