UPDATED: Broken Conduit Plugged - Still Leaking??

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dmalma

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LifeTime Supporter
Sep 11, 2014
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Murrieta, CA
Hi all. I'm hoping for some expert advice. So we have 3 Pentair lighted bubblers on our baja shelf. 2 of the lights failed and need replacing. Unfortunately the pool plaster company didn't cover up the conduit when they plastered the pool (plaster was done in January) so the conduit is full of plaster, which means it's impossible to get the wire out of the conduit to replace the lights. The owner of the plaster company worked yesterday the entire day trying to clear the conduit so he could get the wires out. He first tried acid but that didn't work so he tried another method that involved a drill, with no luck. This morning I went out to look at the pool and heard water gushing out of the autofill and wondered why it would be on since it's been cold, damp and not windy so I measured the water level, left for work, and came back 4 hours later and the water was down more than a 1/4" in 4 hours. The owner of the plaster company came back today to try to unplug the lines again and said he thinks he must have broken the conduit yesterday when he was trying to clear the line so he showed up with an epoxy plug and said that he was going to plug the conduit and that should take care of the problem. (He pressue tested the line of one of the bubblers and determined that it is leaking.) My husband and I have 2 concerns:

1. The pool was leaking for a full day. What's the ground like now underneath the shelf/pool? We have decomposed granite soil, plus we're on a hill. Do you we now have a cavern under our shelf/pool? (Note: We have pavers around our pool and I just noticed that the pavers near the area where it's leaking, on the side of the pool near our hill, are missing the polymeric sand making me wonder if it's due to the leak. We have a 29,000 gallon pool and it's been leaking for 24 hours so we must have lost a lot of water, especially since I measured a 1/4" loss in 4 hours.)

2. How long is a plug going to last? Will we always have to worry about leaking?

We're pretty upset right now because this is shouldn't have happened. What should we do and what can be done so we don't just get a patch-job that we'll always have to worry about? UGH!!!

Thanks for your help.
 
Re: Leak in Conduit - How to Properly Fix It?

There are no simple answers here. Hopefully one of the pool service guys will come along who has experience in this and give you some ideas. Unless the water was under pressure its doubtful there is much of a void in the areas. How long will the plug last depends on how its constructed. The real problem comes in five years when you want to replace the bubbler.
 
Re: Conduit Under Baja Shelf Most Likely Ruined - Jackhammer the Plaster to Fix?

Thanks for responding, Gwegan. It would most likely be sooner than 5 years because we've already had to replace all 3 Pentair lighted bubblers in less than a year because they were defective.

The owner of the plaster company was like a bull in a china shop when he was trying to get the plaster out of the lines (plaster his workers put in there) and broke the conduit on Wednesday. :mad: The funny thing is that when I discovered the leak yesterday morning I saw that my entire pool had become really murky, like it was full of dirt. The water was completely clear before the leak. My husband figures the guy must have destroyed the conduit enough so dirt got in the line and was backing up into the pool. When I pointed out the murkiness to the owner his surly response was that the pool must have gotten dirty because there was some dirt on the steps in my pool. Is this guy a moron or what? My pool is 29,000 gallons, the steps are in the shallow end and the baja shelf (where he created the leak) is in the deep end and no one had brushed any dirt off the steps so how in the world could so much dirt get in the pool, enough to make it murky, unless it was coming from the broken conduit?!

On top of all this, he STILL can't get the lines open in either conduit, but he plugged the conduit that he ruined with epoxy so we think it no longer leaks. We don't know though because we've had wind and rain since last night and today so we can't tell. Plus we're not confident at all in ANYTHING he does and he doesn't seem to care one way or another about doing a good job (obviously).

If he's destroyed the conduit enough so that dirt is backing up into the pool because of it, is just plugging up the line with epoxy the correct way to fix it? If not, what is? My husband is saying the only correct way to fix it is to jackhammer out the lights (i.e. destroying the new plaster), then take out the pavers, dig under the baja shelf and install new conduit. I don't really want to destroy the new plaster. :(

Which brings me back to my original question: How do you fix this properly, especially if the conduit is ruined? This is really stressing me (us) out so hopefully someone can help.

Thanks.
 
Re: Conduit Under Baja Shelf Most Likely Ruined - Jackhammer the Plaster to Fix?

Here's the area in question.


Here's a pic of how the pipes run underneath.


We don't know where he broke it along the run (the sweep maybe or where the sweep meets the pipe?), but we think he was using a drill with (maybe) a fish tape attached. Regardless, he's a pretty angry guy who was mad at having to fix his workers mistakes so he took no care at all in trying to clear the line.

The reason why I attached the 2nd pic was to find out if anyone has ever dug under a baja shelf to fix a broken pipe. For all we know it's hollow under there now since the pipe was leaking for a full 24 hours before we noticed the leak and we were losing a 1/4" of water (at least) every 4 hours.
 
Re: UPDATED: Conduit Under Baja Shelf Most Likely Ruined - Jackhammer the Plaster to

Hi Laura,

This sure is a mess on top of what you've already been through.

I'm trying to wrap my head around what this guy could have done to damage the conduit bad enough to cause a leak. If I recall correctly it was Baron that did the plastering, correct?

Its hard to give much advice without actually knowing where the leak is. You live close enough that I'd be willing to come by and take a look.

From my perspective and if it was my pool:

1.) The plaster contractor put the plaster in the conduit (the lights come with covers designed to be left in place until after the plaster has been applied) and did not attempt to remove it before it completely set up.

2.) The plaster contractor damaged the conduit enough to cause a leak that wasn't there before

The plaster contractor is 100% liable to replace and reinstall the light as well as repair (or chip out and replace) the plaster.

From the sounds of things the niche the light sits in is damaged... Still hard to know for sure.

I wouldn't be horribly concerned with the leak causing a hallow spot under the shell. It obviously needs to get fixed but I would look at maintaining the aesthetics and function of the pool first (fix the light, not just plug the conduit). You paid good money for the light, the electrical run, the shell and the plaster... You should be able to enjoy your investment.
 
Re: UPDATED: Conduit Under Baja Shelf Most Likely Ruined - Jackhammer the Plaster to

Thanks so much for your help, Brian. I sent you a pm with my phone number. The contractor was going to come back to continue to try to unblock the conduit in both pipes, but we told him not to come back right now, maybe after the holidays. Really we just wanted him to stay away from our pool until we could figure out what to do and to minimize any additional damage. (Not only did he ruin the conduit(s), he also spilled something on the coping stones that has stained them and is causing them to break down. Acid maybe? Who knows.) What a mess. FYI, it's not Baron.

Thanks again.
Laura
 
Re: UPDATED: Conduit Under Baja Shelf Most Likely Ruined - Jackhammer the Plaster to

Does anyone know how much evaporation is normal during the winter when the air temp during the day was in the low to mid 50's yesterday, during the night in the upper 30's, and with no wind? We've lost about 3/8" of inch of water in 24 hours under those conditions. (I measured yesterday morning at 8:00 am and measured again at 8:00 am this morning.) Also, the pavers still have water seeping up between them on the side where the leak was supposedly plugged.

All this leaking has been taking place next to our hill so we're worried about the stability of the soil if it gets too wet.

Thanks.
Laura
 
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