Unable to get pH where it should be

[basod]

The half phase in the TA test is normal from drop to drop. provided you are wiping the dropper tip between each drop?
thats a good bit of aeration and will continue to raise pH A quick remedy may be removing the eyeball they thread out so that you don't force water to break the surface tension in the spa but maintain flow

 

[jesses408]

Wipe the tip of what?
Also i dont understand how any pool can have a bubbler or any type of water feature if this is the result.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

So I would drop your TA to 50ppm. Get it so that you can definitely read 50ppm. Also, can you just turn that eyeball fitting 180deg so that it is pointing down?

Next, with a TA of 50ppm, see how quickly your pH rises from 7.6 to 8.0. Don't worry about the rise from 7.2 to 7.6; pH rise is not linear with time and it is much faster form 7.0 to 7.5 than 7.6 to 8.0. I'd like to know how long your pH "hangs" above 7.6.

Let see what that timescale is and then we can talk about other options.

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Wipe the tip of what?
Also i dont understand how any pool can have a bubbler or any type of water feature if this is the result.

It's gets better. Your pool is relatively new (built in 2014) and depending on how the plaster was started, pH rise is almost always worse in newly plastered pools than in "aged" pools. And yes, aeration definitely drives up pH which is something pool builders rarely understand and so they simply ignore those facts when adding on water features. Water features are nice to have, but, like everything else about a pool, they have to be properly managed to keep the pool trouble free.

 

[basod]

Wipe the tip of what?
Also i dont understand how any pool can have a bubbler or any type of water feature if this is the result.

Wipe the tip of the of the R-0009 with a damp cloth in between each drop during TA test. With a speedstir you can watch it stay red in the funnel/vortex created by the stirring stick and that last drop will force the color shift to red.

Bubblers and water features are aesthetically pleasing so builders incorporate them for buyers. Its not the end of the world to have them just understanding how to manage their use when balancing chemistry is paramount.
Like I said above I'd take the eyeball out for normal pool operation and then maybe reinstall it when you have company or a party for others to appreciate the aesthetics - while you now understand it can cause pH rise

 

[jesses408]

I wasn't aware that the tip of the dropper bottle should ever touch anything - I thought that would contaminate it. When doing the tests, I'm stirring the water with a stir rod since swirling takes too long.

 

[jesses408]

Also, can you just turn that eyeball fitting 180deg so that it is pointing down?

View attachment 52756

The return is on the horizontal part of the step and shoots water up in an arc. If I turned it around then it would arc towards the deck instead of arcing toward the pool. The options I see are-

1. Plug it completely and don't have a return there - there doesn't need to be a return on the top step since there are returns to the left and right of the steps. It's there purely for show
2. Find an angle fitting that shoots water horizontally so it doesn't shoot out of the water at all
3. Find a fitting with a wider hole so that some water comes up but not enough to generate bubbles

 

[pooldv]

The TF-100 Test kit directions say to wipe the tip on a damp cloth between drops. This is to eliminate static build up which will make the drops smaller which will result in a falsely high test result. TFTestkits.net

The TaylorK-2006 test kit directions don't say to do that.

 

[pooldv]

This is what I have on my sun shelf.
Pool Eyeball Fitting with Slotted Opening, Hayward SP1419AGR | Sunplay.com

 

[jesses408]

I bought a cap to put on that return, but when I removed the eyeball fitting, there's a threaded piece still in there that I can't remove. Is there some special tool that I need that removes them? And what's it called that I'm trying to remove?

 

[basod]

Don't cap the hole. buy one of those ~$2 fttings that pooldv posted above it will still allow directional flow through the spa step which you need for circulation but not areate the water.

As for getting the inner fitting from a stubborn eyeball loose I use a rag wrapped around the threads and channel locks or a small pipe wrench with "GENTLE" pressure applied to the handles.
The only option for an easy-out that size is more expensive than a new fitting multiple times over.

 

[jesses408]

I have to get that inner fitting out to use the slotted opening (or the cap). Cap seemed easier since they sell it at the local pool store. I don't think there's any reason for a return to be there other than for the fountain. If the fountain has to go due to raising the pH then it should just be capped. There are wall-returns to the left and right of that area that provide plenty of circulation.

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FYI I added what I think is 30ppm of borates to the pool tonight. I'll see if that makes a difference as well

 

[jesses408]

Still fighting with the PH. I was able to adjust the return on the top step so that it doesn't produce any bubbles. I didn't realize it was adjustable. Right now the only source of aeration is the spa spillover. I also figured out how to adjust the pump speed so that the waterfall doesn't blast water. For some reason, the previous homeowner had the pump set to go to maximum speed when the waterfall was on. The water would shoot out of it instead of spilling slowly down the rocks. I hardly ever use the waterfall so that isn't a contributor to the problem.

I added 30ppm of borates to the pool a few weeks ago. That seemed to help a little. Instead of the PH rising to 8 every day, it's only rising to 7.8. Over the weekend I added another 10, and I'll add the final 10 next weekend to bring it to 50ppm if 40ppm isn't enough. Not sure what else I can do aside from turn off the spa return completely so there is no spillover. I did try reducing the spa return to a minimum but then the spa gets dirty with dust and bugs floating on top of the water.