Two Questions

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C

ChiefRob

0
Jul 21, 2013
89
Long Island New York
Hi all, enjoying my third year here at TFP. Opened up to a green mess this year, with a couple of days of hard work I am well on my way to being once again crystal clear. I have two questions however....

1) I know this sounds counter intuitive but does non-chlorine shock show up on our free chlorine test as free chlorine?

2) My liner is quite faded (it is 13 years old), especially in certain spots like the stairs in the shallow end as well as the floor and a few spots in the deep end. My wife is telling it is because of the bleach I add to the pool eveeryday. Before I started using the method we do here I had endless algae issues and followed the pool store advice. Tons of shock and everything else you could imagine went into the pool and my CYA was well over 100 and honestly I couldnt even tell you what my chlorine level was back then. Since I have adopted the TFP method I have taken my chlorine dispensor and thrown it in the garbage and hard piped where it used to be. Right now I am sure my chlorine levels are lower on a daily basis then they ever have been. So my question is what is causing the liner to fade, I feel it can’t be the bleach but it is due to the sun and the years of being abused by the pool store. Am I on the right track with that?
 
1) from my search here and at taylor, it does cause a positive interference. taylor offers a test solution for that interference.
2) i would guess bleach. bleach is heavier than water and will go to the bottom if not dispersed. if you have not been adding it slowly in front of a return jet(s), while the pump is running (duh), some of it could have settled on the bottom. but i think 13 years is old for a chlorine pool liner. that i dont know, haven't been using chlorine long enough yet. someone else may answer that one better.
 
Non-chlorine shock usually is completely broken down within 24-48 hours after application. It is still an oxidizer and it’s effect is to require additional drops of R-0871 FAS titrant. It does not react much with the DPD dye (R-0870 powder) unless you add the R-0003 potassium iodide drops. So, if you add the DPD powder to your pool water sample and chlorine is present, you will require extra drops of the titrant to neutralize everything. This will show up as a higher FC value. If no chlorine was present when you added the dye, or very little chlorine and a lot of the non-chlorine shock, then it would show up as CCs on the test when you added the R-0003 drops. So it sort of depends on how much non-chlorine shock to actual chlorine is in the water sample.

As for liner fade, unless you were pouring the bleach down the sides of the liner and letting it puddle there without mixing it in, then it is almost certainly related to age and poor care prior to using TFP. If you follow the FC/CYA ratio presented here, then the levels of active chlorine in the water are quite low and would not contribute significantly to liner fade. All liners fade with age, even plaster surfaces fade with age, it’s just a fact of life. A 13 year old liner is an old liner, you’ve gotten a long life out of it.
 
AHA! That is why my free chlorine level is registering so high, thank you for the answers. I will give it some time and take another reading and then adjust accordingly.

What is the proper way of adding bleach to the water, is it adding it very slowly in front of the return jets? I have generally added it slowly in the deep end as I walk around with the pump running of course.
 
Most people I know of pour it in front of a return using a thin stream (pencil width) of bleach. That way the return water jet will “push” the bleach and disperse it. For added measure one could also quickly brush the pool walls to help mix the water a bit more. As long as you add it slowly and don’t let it pool at the bottom, then your liner will be fine. Powdered, granular shock (either dichlor or cal-hypo) is more worrisome in my opinion as it is easy for granules to sink to the bottom and not dissolve thus leading to concentrated chlorine sitting against the surface. Liquids disperse much more rapidly as long as their relative densities are not much higher than water.
 
I completely agree, however since I generally add shock as well as bleach to the deep end I am going to have to say that the wear of the liner especially in the shallow end will have to be caused by time. Would high levels of chlorine in the water in general have an adverse reaction to liner color? I would imagine it would over a long period of time. Back when I have an auto chlorine dispensor and used 3” tabs my pool guy routinely kept the dial cranked up to full. He has since not been allowed on the property and the chlorine dispensor is in the trash like I previously mentioned. TFP method is easily kept my pool under control with little effort. Biggest amount of work is I check my chlorine levels twice a day religiouly
 
Blue dyes used in liner manufacturing are the most susceptible to chlorine oxidation and fading at any chlorine level. So, over time, liner colors will fade. Add to that the extra exposure from UV light, particularly at shallow depths, and there’s plenty of oxidizers around to fade and degrade the liner. If you drained the pool and carefully inspected the liner you would find that the portion above the water line is less elastic, more brittle and faded than below the water line. As well, the portion that has been submerged will be porous and chalky and would likely shed with some mechanical rubbing between your fingers.

Water is a powerful solvent and chlorine is one of the strongest oxidizers around...mix the two and there’s nothing on the planet that will last forever when submerged into it...
 
No matter how good the empirical evidence is, some people will always refuse to acknowledge that pool-store advice and methods are the reason for pool troubles. I have run into this with people that I know as well. One would not swim in the pool because they thought the water actually was not safe to swim in without the magical chemicals the pool-store tells you to put in. They also refuse to believe that chlorine is chlorine is chlorine no matter where you get it from. I'd also say it is just an aging liner. If the fading was localized to where you dump the bleach that would indicate a problem with your method. When I add liquid bleach, I just walk around the pool pouring as I go.
 
Thanks for the reply poolgate, side question. I passed an overnight free chlorine test last night but water is still a tad cloudy. I feel i do need to give the filter some time as well as I think I will give it a good cleaning however is there any harm in keeping the slam going one more day just to be sure everything is dead?
 
ChiefRob said:
Thanks for the reply poolgate, side question. I passed an overnight free chlorine test last night but water is still a tad cloudy. I feel i do need to give the filter some time as well as I think I will give it a good cleaning however is there any harm in keeping the slam going one more day just to be sure everything is dead?
Click to expand...

If the water is still cloudy, then continue with the SLAM. Remember the criteria for ending the SLAM:

You are done when:
CC is 0.5 or lower;
You pass an OCLT (ie overnight FC loss test shows a loss of 1.0 ppm or less);
And the water is clear.
 

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There are also cheap pigments used in cheap sheet material, which is the mainstream & forefront of many fabricators lines..

a 13 year old liner predates those materials...

Anyway, no props for lithium? I just received 2000lbs — waiting for joyful to take bait & ask if me fits its for occupational or recreational use.
 
PoolguyinCT said:
There are also cheap pigments used in cheap sheet material, which is the mainstream & forefront of many fabricators lines..

a 13 year old liner predates those materials...

Anyway, no props for lithium? I just received 2000lbs — waiting for joyful to take bait & ask if me fits its for occupational or recreational use.
Click to expand...

2000lbs.....that’s a whole lot of hallucinations to deal with. Let me know what your other personalities think :crazy:
 
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