Two capped off Returns. One Return jet deeper than the rest.

[Luxem87]

Ignore my terrible "paint" diagrams but when I bought this house and dove deep (pun intended) into research on plumbing, equipment, etc I realized how much the previous owners rigged things and patched things. I pretty much have it figured out but i noticed two pipes coming out of the ground which were capped off. I decided to drill a small hole in the caps and blow air into them to see if i could find where they went. As you can see with my terrible equipment diagram, that is how my plumbing is currently ( and roughly). I found out that the current plumbed in pool return is piped to three jets in the pool. One of the capped off pipes is going to three other returns. The other capped off pipe goes to a deeper return jet roughly 4' deeper than the others on the deep end. The rest of the plumbing is pretty basic. Ive had the pipes tested to make sure they are not leaking and everything passed. What i was wondering is, before i just plump those capped off pipes into an "all in one" return, is there anything im missing or ignorant on?

 

[ajw22]

What is the legend for the red, orange, green, and blue lines?

Which are in use and which are the capped lines?

 

[Luxem87]

Red is the suction line. The skimmer has its line, two pool main drains share a line, and spa main drains.

Blue is known "return lines". The current plumbed "pool return", Waterfall, Bubblers, and Spa Jets.

Orange is a "pool return" which is in the deep end and set deeper than the others. It is also one of the currently capped-off pipes

Green is a "pool return" which is just like the other known pool returns in positioning and depth. It is just currently capped off.

The capped-off pipes tested well. I just don't know why the previous owners capped them. I also don't know the purpose of the deeper return in the deep end. I was planning on just plumbing them all together as one "pool return" but I'm still pretty novice in the pool world. The way I'm seeing it right now is out of the potential 7 returns, I'm only using 3. Which decreases the heating of the pool along with circulation.

 

[HermanTX]

I interpret the drawing that the bottom orange line (1 return) and the top purple line (3 returns) are the 2 capped lines.
To confirm - those were tested and are holding pressure.

Is the 3HP pump new or was it previously there? My thinking is at one time a small pump may not have been able to flow to all 7 returns (Green, Purple & Orange) at the same time so they reduced to 3 returns. Just a consideration. Unless you can shed more light on the plumbing.

 

[HermanTX]

PS. I do find it interesting that 6 of the 7 known returns are on the same side of the pool as the skimmer. Normally you want the returns pushing debris to the skimmer - not away from it.

 

[Luxem87]

I interpret the drawing that the bottom orange line (1 return) and the top purple line (3 returns) are the 2 capped lines.
To confirm - those were tested and are holding pressure.

Is the 3HP pump new or was it previously there? My thinking is at one time a small pump may not have been able to flow to all 7 returns (Green, Purple & Orange) at the same time so they reduced to 3 returns. Just a consideration. Unless you can shed more light on the plumbing.

lol well, the purples were supposed to be blue. I used the paint program on a computer so.. haha.

Capped lines were tested and passed.

Your interpretation is correct on the lines. the purple (or blue) lines are what are currently being used and known. Orange is the deeper return in the deep end capped off. The green are all three tied to the other capped line.

The pump was here before, but I can tell it is decently new. I would assume that they used to have a two-speed pump because of what's in the Jandy RS relay area. So maybe that couldn't keep up? when I bought this house the only thing that worked was the pump. The SWG, Heater (which was originally solar but ripped out), pool and spa lights, and jet all didn't work. the pump was wired right to the Jandy subpanel breaker so that was basically the on/off switch. I have had to completely NCIS this thing. This is the first pool I've owned so I literally had to use google image to figure out what most of this stuff is. Ive got a pretty good grasp on it all thanks to these forums, google, and youtube.

 

[Luxem87]

Maybe actual pictures will help to understand the pool set up.

 

[Luxem87]

the pool equipment before and after.

Ignore the capped-off pipes in the new picture with the heat pump. Just know two individual pipes were originally capped off there lol.

 

[ajw22]

You don't want that many returns. Your flow rate and water pressure out of many returns will be low.

A pool needs maybe 4 returns maximum as you divide a flow rate of 20 to 60 GPM among 4 returns and each one may flow 5 to 15 GPM.

 

[Luxem87]

You don't want that many returns. Your flow rate and water pressure out of many returns will be low.

A pool needs maybe 4 returns maximum as you divide a flow rate of 20 to 60 GPM among 4 returns and each one may flow 5 to 15 GPM.

Why would they put in so many returns? Another big chunk of information I found out about this pool was it was installed by the owner of Blue Haven Pools back in roughly 2003-2004. I wouldn't think an owner of a pool company would needlessly install things on his pool.

 

[ajw22]

Which decreases the heating of the pool along with circulation.

The number of returns does not effect the heating of the pool.

Your heater puts out a fixed number of BTUs that go into the pool whether from 1 return or 20 returns. Same amount of heat.

To distribute the heat around the pool you want the skimmers pulling the water from where it enters the pool to other areas of the pool. Good pool circulation comes from the interaction between your returns and skimmers and the skimmer placement.

 

[Luxem87]

The biggest thing I'm curious about is, why is one return at the deep end significantly deeper than the other returns. I would assume in the pool world that means something?

 

[ajw22]

Why would they put in so many returns? Another big chunk of information I found out about this pool was it was installed by the owner of Blue Haven Pools back in roughly 2003-2004. I wouldn't think an owner of a pool company would needlessly install things on his pool.

Pool builders do not necessarily have any understanding of fluid dynamics or hydraulics.

I challenge you to ask pool builders you meet to explain Bernoulli's principle and see how many of them know what it is let alone be able to explain it.

Bernoulli's principle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The blue line returns are not that excessive but the pool is unblanced with many returns and few skimmers. Think about all the water that is being pushed into the pool needs to then be captured by one skimmer? And look at the blue returns and think about how the water will travel to get to the skimmer.

 

[ajw22]

The biggest thing I'm curious about is, why is one return at the deep end significantly deeper than the other returns. I would assume in the pool world that means something?

Pool builders are very hands on builders and not engineers. They learn by doing and trying things and see how they like it.

I think the builder may have experimented with different configurations he thought up. None of them may have been well engineered.

Deep returns help with heating as heat rises. Some pools have returns in the floor to facilitate spreading the heated return water around the pool and letting the natural convection have the hot water mix as it rises to the surface.

 

[ajw22]

It looks like for suction you currently have one skimmer and one main drain on the floor.

You currently have three returns plus the waterfall, bubblers, and spa.

What is the depth profile of the pool?

 

[Luxem87]

It looks like for suction you currently have one skimmer and one main drain on the floor.

You currently have three returns plus the waterfall, bubblers, and spa.

What is the depth profile of the pool?

It has one skimmer, and two main drains that are plumbed into one pipe. You are correct on the current returns.

The deep end is 7'. It goes from 3' to 5' up till the skimmer which is roughly the half way point of the pool length. Then drops down to 7' total depth

 

[HermanTX]

Why would they put in so many returns? Another big chunk of information I found out about this pool was it was installed by the owner of Blue Haven Pools back in roughly 2003-2004. I wouldn't think an owner of a pool company would needlessly install things on his pool.

Thanks for the pictures and for filling out your signature. Those are helpful. You have done a great job figuring out the workings of your pool. This forum is wonderful so ask if there is something you need.

As stated in my earlier post, I am confused why all the returns except for the deep return is on same side of skimmer. Even more surprising now that a PB was the original owner.
First of all - we would have recommended a minimum of 2 skimmers. And second to position 3-4 returns such that they push flow to the skimmer. Oh well - maybe the PB learned some things and hopefully did not repeat this on other pools.

 

[Luxem87]

The plot thickens... I've updated my terrible paint diagram. There turns out to be another pipe that I originally thought was plumped into a return and was actually another capped-off pipe by the suction side of the equipment. The pictures attached show now what is 100% tested and known along with the original inherited plumbing and some plumbing I did to test things out.

I have an idea of how I was to plumb the returns. After the "T" fitting going down to the original pool returns I was thinking of putting another 3-way valve and pipe the "4' deep return jet" and " Yellow coded new return jets." That way I have access to all returns and can isolate whatever I need to make sure I have a good flow in whatever I choose.

A big question I have now is, For the green capped-off line that I think was originally plumbed as a cleaner line, Should I plumb that back in with a valve to be able to use a suction side cleaner or just have access to it? Or not even bother with it at all and eventually get a robotic cleaner in the future.

***Edit*** I just noticed in my color-coded key blue is labeled as "main drain" where blue is actually the original 3 return jets for the pool.

 

[HermanTX]

A big question I have now is, For the green capped-off line that I think was originally plumbed as a cleaner line, Should I plumb that back in with a valve to be able to use a suction side cleaner or just have access to it? Or not even bother with it at all and eventually get a robotic cleaner in the future.

Are you able to cap off the end of the Green line in the pool? The concern is always about algae growing in there and not able to treat it properly . I personally like having the capability of a suction side cleaner. They are more reliable over the long term than current robot cleaners.
I would definitely plumb in the “deep” return because it is opposite the skimmer and I think you need some circulation from the opposite side.
Not sure what to do with those 2 YELLOW capped off returns. Can you cap the pool side and isolate it?

 

[KevMo]

The biggest thing I'm curious about is, why is one return at the deep end significantly deeper than the other returns. I would assume in the pool world that means something?

I don't know if this is the reason but chillers like Glacier call for the output to be a return in the floor of the deep end. Some PBs worry about it getting clogged and will place it low on a wall in the deep end. In that case you would have a home run of thst return back to the equipment pad.