Totally confused regarding weekly pool service.

I don't think there's much of a mystery here. Let me describe what the pool service does in my local area where out of two stores (with many trucks) they service over 2000 pools. They use Trichlor tabs either in floating feeders or in inline chlorinators in order to maintain the chlorine level during the week. They then come weekly to brush the pool, clean the skimmer and pump baskets, clean the filter (if needed) and they shock the pool with chlorinating liquid.

As the season progresses, the CYA level builds up. At 2 ppm FC per day chlorine usage, this is around 36 ppm CYA per month. When the CYA hits 100 ppm, they usually do a partial drain of the pool, BUT we get NO summer rains in our area and most pools have cartridge filters due to water restrictions so there is NO backwashing. They target the FC level to be 4.5 ppm. So generally the pools are fine for preventing algae growth until the CYA gets somewhere above 60 ppm but the weekly shocking keeps things in check until 80-100 ppm CYA. When a pool has problems, even after shocking, then they use a phosphate remover. Some pools are open from Memorial Day to Labor Day which is only 3 months while some are from early May to late September which is 5 months. So 3 months is easy and it's only the 5 month pools that get a little dicey towards the end of the season.

In Florida, you get summer rains and that usually overflows the pool and dilutes the water. Also, many pools have sand filters where the weekly backwashing also dilutes the water. So for smaller pools, this dilution could extend the time before a problem occurs to 6 months or so. They likely use either a phosphate remover or a weekly algaecide to prevent algae growth. And we get tons of people reporting in on this forum around August in Florida when the CYA has built up from their use of Trichlor tabs/pucks, but they usually aren't using chlorinating liquid so their CYA is building up more quickly.

Why don't you test your pool's CYA level since that's really the key. Also let us know the FC level right after they've serviced the pool and again right before they service the pool. That will help us sort out what is being done. As others have noted, one can also shock the pool to a high chlorine level and if the CYA level is high it might last through the week, but the swing in FC will be rather dramatic. At 100 ppm CYA where the daily chlorine loss rate may be 15%, one can go to 14 ppm FC and the next week it may be at 4 ppm FC and that's without using any Trichlor to supplement. Obviously, some combination of techniques can be used to balance between the FC swing and the rate of CYA buildup.

There may be 10 million residential pools in the U.S., but there are already nearly 45,000 registered members on this forum and in the peak months of May, June and July this site gets over 300,000 unique visitors per month and these numbers are growing. In nearly every case with algae problems, it is due to the FC level being too low relative to the CYA level and this often occurs due to use of stabilized chlorine with the CYA level building up over time.
 
Well, I have to ask, which "taylor" kit are you using? If it's the (k2005) DPD that only tests up to 5, that doesn't tell you what you really need to know, which is how high is the FC really reaching after their visit?

My best guess is your CYA is over 100 (care to share? ;-)...) and they are raising the pool over shock level when they come. I have seen several pools with CYA well over 100 - they shock the pool weekly with extreme doses of chlorine - nothing grows but the water is not exactly balanced or pleasant on the eyes and skin, just sayin. I've seen it - I inherited a pool where the FC in an uncovered outdoor pool barely dropped over the course of a week and his CYA was in the 120-130 range.

Unless there is a liquidator type dispenser or a SWG, for a weekly maintenance visit a combination of tablets and liquid is the only option. In most places if they winterize the annual water replacement is enough to get by without too many problems provided dichlor shock isn't used to compound the CYA problem.
 
I don't argue that CYA is key, I totally believe that. I do test it and actually just went out and tested it to a result of 35.

This is the cause of my confusion. Based on what I have read there is no way my pool service can be continually using stabilized tabs every single week all year without some kind of drain and fill. We have never done a drain and fill, not even a partial drain and fill.

I am guessing after this weeks service I am going to find that they are shocking to high levels to carry it through the week. I have never really tested the day of service because I guess I never saw a point, rather I wanted to test later to make sure what they were doing was lasting all week.

For the record, I am not trying to argue that the information on this site is not valid. If I thought that was the case I would have never bothered posting for help.

What I was trying to find out is if there is actually a viable way to chlorinate manually once a week and be within recommended levels for the week. Obviously the answer is that it cannot be done without using stabilized chlorine and risking CYA levels.
 
You're right it can't. And no one is arguing ;-) ... btw its also entirely possible that at some point your CYA was converted to ammonia and they started over with zero CYA...

Our Mantra is BBB... less is more...KISS... etc. That doesn't mean (at least for me) that we say "NEVER" use pucks, clarifier, etc. We are just saying you don't have to. You absolutely CAN use pucks. All we are trying to convey is a) that method costs more for several reasons including the need at times for PH/TA boosting chemicals and water replacement to lower CYA, possible applications of algaecide, etc. and b) BBB is cheap and easy and takes 5 min a day so why not? lol

YOU CAN absolutely maintain this pool yourself with a combination of tabs/liquid. They KEY is accurate testing, the KNOWLEDGE of what to do with the test results you obtain YOURSELF, and what course of action to take in the event something does come up. The most important thing is to enjoy your pool. Back in the day I hated my pool and the expense and the work and the frustration and wished we never bought it. Now? Pshaw. Piece of cake. If only I had time to swim in it. LOL
 
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We don't know exactly how it happens - it appears to be a form of bacteria that enters the pool in some way, perhaps rainwater run off. If the FC drops too low the bacteria can convert the CYA to ammonia. Chlorine oxidizes the ammonia but it takes A LOT and often we get cries of "my pool won't hold FC" and there is an EXTREME chlorine consumption at start up - this is the ammonia consuming the chlorine as it is being added. I've experienced it myself and gone through cases and cases of liquid to oxidize it, and the CYA starts back at zero.
 
Tablets and liquid. Once a week. I go more than once if there is a problem that develops (this is extremely rare ;-) lol) I had a pool once that was located near a pond on the property and after a couple weeks of fighting a stubborn recurring algae issue which made no sense to me we pinpointed the problem to the family's dog who was swimming in both. Polyquat 60 and laying down the no dog in the pool law fixed the problem.
 

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Yes. I am diligent monitoring the CYA/FC levels. At the beginning of the season as the CYA is at the low end, tablets can usually keep up no problem. During the peak summer weeks (mid-end july) I shock with liquid weekly - the CYA is higher, the FC holds longer but the shocking is a necessary part during this time because I see that the tablets alone are not usually enough to keep the FC above the "min" for the CYA level.... by the time I come back after a week if I don't shock the FC is at or below the "min". Shocking gives a cushion of 1-2 ppm above the min by the time I return. The pool owners don't mind the weekly shock (they are used to it in most cases or just don't care) and it's factored into my cost breakdown. Don't get me wrong - on occasion I have shown up to a surprise of one sort or another (usually attributed to a blown circuit breaker or now power to the pad so therefore no chlorine flowing from the tablet feeder or SWG.)

A happy pool is a pool that's used. I would say a week is about all a pool can be ignored before she starts to complain.
 
With regard to your time issue....I check my water roughly every other day...takes about 5 minutes to check the PH and chlorine levels, and add chemicals. So figure 15-20 minutes per week...about the same as your pool service.
 
Concho said:
With regard to your time issue....I check my water roughly every other day...takes about 5 minutes to check the PH and chlorine levels, and add chemicals. So figure 15-20 minutes per week...about the same as your pool service.
^^^This^^^

While it's not recommended, once you learn how your pool "behaves" (yes, they are extremely predictable), every once in a while you can stretch it even a little longer than that.
 
Steve2968 said:
I have a feeling they are using unstabilized to raise the level on service day and maybe only using 1 3" tab per week to keep enough FC while not adding to much CYA. Is this possible?
I'm not sure this particular question was answered. If they use just one 3" Trichlor tab and let's assume it's an 8-ounce tab then in your pool which seems to be 15,000 gallons this would be 3.7 ppm FC and 2.2 ppm CYA from the tab, so per week. Clearly not enough by itself to maintain chlorine, but if they are adding chlorinating liquid when they visit then it could work. Let's assume even FC from the Trichlor through the week and an initial shock of 10 ppm FC chlorinating liquid and assume a 25% drop in FC per day and also look at 50% drop in FC per day.

.............. 25% Daily Chlorine Loss ........ 50% Daily Chlorine Loss
Day 0 .... 10 ppm FC .............................. 10 ppm FC
Day 1 ... 10.0 * 0.75 + 3.7/7 = 8.03 ...... 10.0 * 0.5 + 3.7/7 = 5.53
Day 2 ... 8.03 * 0.75 + 3.7/7 = 6.55 ...... 5.53 * 0.5 + 3.7/7 = 3.29
Day 3 ... 6.55 * 0.75 + 3.7/7 = 5.44 ...... 3.29 * 0.5 + 3.7/7 = 2.18
Day 4 ... 5.44 * 0.75 + 3.7/7 = 4.61 ...... 2.18 * 0.5 + 3.7/7 = 1.62
Day 5 ... 4.61 * 0.75 + 3.7/7 = 3.99 ...... 1.62 * 0.5 + 3.7/7 = 1.34
Day 6 ... 3.99 * 0.75 + 3.7/7 = 3.52 ...... 1.34 * 0.5 + 3.7/7 = 1.20

So clearly the rate of daily chlorine loss from the UV in sunlight is a huge factor. The number of pucks used and the shock level of chlorine are also very important. Towards the end of the week, the FC might be dropping to where algae may start to grow, but then the shock of chlorinating liquid kills off what got started. In the 25% loss case, if the FC got down to 3.5 then that's still enough to prevent algae growth with the CYA up to at least around 50 ppm and probably 70 ppm though this is very dependent on the nutrient (phosphate, nitrate) level in the pool and assumes no algaecides are used. In the 50% loss case, the latter part of the week below 2 ppm FC would be a problem for even lower CYA levels, at least 40 ppm or higher, again if no algaecides or phosphate removers are used (unless the water is naturally low in phosphates).

The rate of CYA rise would be only 9.4 ppm per month if there were no water dilution. It will be interesting to see 1) your measurements of FC right before and right after their visit and 2) see how many pucks they add for their visit and where they are added. I'm not sure if you'll be able to tell if they are adding any algaecide to the pool either weekly or in initial (perhaps yearly) one time dose (for things like phosphate removers, borates, or copper).

Most pool services use either Trichlor pucks or chlorinating liquid (or chlorine gas) or some combination of the two. Using Trichlor pucks plus weekly shocking with chlorinating liquid is quite common. Some use algaecides or phosphate removers and some don't or do so only as needed (i.e. when a pool runs into problems; they'll shock to fix the problem and then add something to prevent a future problem).
 
Sorry for the delay getting back..

My wife watched the pool man this week and asked some questions. He did not use pucks this week at all.

He used:

Liquid chlorine
A granular chlorine he poor into the skimmer basket and some sort of acid.

My test result from the later in the day after he serviced the pool.

FC 10
PH 8.2
Alkalinity 70
CH 350
CYA 50

It seems a bit out of wack and CYA went up roughly 10.

I wanted to add a bit more information that may help. Although I do not know the gallons of water, we have one of those typical kidney shaped pools and it is a gunite pool. We have a spa that waterfalls into the pool but, we may turn that on a couple times a year max. We do have a heater but hardly ever run it at all. We also use a cartridge filter.

We do have a net cage over the pool that supposedly blocks a percentage of UV and we hardly ever get debris in our pool as a result. The pool also gets very minimal usage as kids are gone and we have no pets. Might get moderate usage 1 or 2 weeks a year when family visits.

I am still confused by how the CYA level is not completely through the roof or could it be the liquid and granular chlorine used this week were both unstabilized meaning he is using pucks to get it to a desired level then switching to granular and liquid unstabilized?

If this is the case is there any chance the FC levels could last until next weeks service without algae starting to appear?

Is it possible algae is starting to grow before service but is not visible and he eliminates it with the liquid shock?

Thanks again in advance for the help.
 
It is very possible if the FC drops too low that algae starts and then when he raises the FC that kills it mostly off.

You should test right before he comes and then an hour after he leaves.

If he used Cal-hypo, that would not raise the CYA.

The screen could be helping you a good bit, and like chem geeks shows if you are ONLY losing 25% / day the FC will be below 4ppm by next week which is below the minimum for a CYA of 50ppm.
 

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