Tiny Holes in Liner...again

[nasparkles]

I have a 20,000 gallon above ground pool. It is installed on top of a Gorilla Pad, which is directly on top of the ground. In 2020, we had a large number of pinholes in our liner (dozens of them) and it was suggested that I damaged the liner with too much chlorine. (I was trying to get rid of algae that wouldn't go away). We paid someone to replace the liner last year, and before the summer was even over, I was pretty sure we had a leak again. Now that the pool is open, I took a closer look and can see there are more pinholes again. Now I'm thinking it's ants or temites, because I've been very careful with my chlorine use. My question is, if we install a concrete pad under the pool, will this help with the insect problem? Have any of you had this issue and if so, what did you do? We love our pool, but we can't afford to replace a liner every 3 months lol.

 

[Mdragger88]

You should treat the area under the pool for ants/insects before installing the new liner. Using Granular insecticide. Also treating around the pool on a regular basis.
If you suspect termites you should also treat for those.
Taurus Sc treats for both I believe. We purchased it on do my own.com to treat our home & around our deck/pool for subterranean termites. There are very specific instructions for it.
Did you see evidence of ants or termites when you replaced the liner before besides the holes?

 

[Mdragger88]

Just wanted To add - we also use the spectracide termite stakes, they are bait & poison in one, not just bait like some others.
I usually order them from Walmart.

 

[nasparkles]

Just wanted To add - we also use the spectracide termite stakes, they are bait & poison in one, not just bait like some others.
I usually order them from Walmart.

Thank you for the info! Whether there was evidence of insects under the pool at replacement is unknown to us. The installer never mentioned anything, but they probably wouldn't, they were likely just hired off the street by the person we hired. I plan on doing it myself next time, bcause I think I could do just as good a job as they did. Hopefully, better. So in your opinion it wouldn't be worth it to lay a cement pad?

 

[Mdragger88]

A concrete pad being worth it is a relatively personal opinion. You have to decide if it’s worth it to you.
Will it work/is it ok to do? - yes, so long as it’s level & properly done to support the weight of the pool (which is 167,000#’s just in water)
Is it kind of expensive? yes.
For most people, the driving reason for getting an above ground pool in the first place is that it is less expensive than other options, pouring an adequate concrete pad negates some of those savings.
You will need to completely disassemble the pool to do this as well, which is not the case for a simple liner exchange.

 

[VinnyinNJ]

I want to add that if you use the Taurus SC you need to use a sprayer just for that and spray at least 2x a year, 6 months apart. I use the generic version and it works for around my house, living in NJ we have ants in the summer and spray 2x a year - March and June to get us through the summer.

The difference between ants and termites based on what my exterminator told me is ants are surface and termites are subterranean. They do use the Taurus for both but it is used differently due to the nature of the pest.

I agree that if you replace the liner to treat inside the pool wall. If you suspect termites you may want to consider treating the area the way they would treat termites in a home which is to treat deep into the ground. Taurus supposedly has a 10 year life underground, I had my house done 11 years ago and I'm still OK as far as termites. I know it's a lot of work but it's better than replacing the liner every few months or every season.

Edit: Taurus SC is the generic, Termidor is the brand name.

 

[Mdragger88]

I want to add that if you use the Taurus SC you need to use a sprayer just for that and spray at least 2x a year, 6 months apart. I use the generic version and it works for around my house, living in NJ we have ants in the summer and spray 2x a year - March and June to get us through the summer.

The difference between ants and termites based on what my exterminator told me is ants are surface and termites are subterranean. They do use the Taurus for both but it is used differently due to the nature of the pest.

I agree that if you replace the liner to treat inside the pool wall. If you suspect termites you may want to consider treating the area the way they would treat termites in a home which is to treat deep into the ground. Taurus supposedly has a 10 year life underground, I had my house done 11 years ago and I'm still OK as far as termites. I know it's a lot of work but it's better than replacing the liner every few months or every season.

Edit: Taurus SC is the generic, Termidor is the brand name.

Vinny, Don’t wait much longer to do the next treatment. Some say it can last as long as 15 years in the soil but to be safe stick with the 10yr treatments. We were under the impression that the previous owners of our home had just done the treatment before we purchased. We got termites around 9yrs after purchase. Turns out it was just an inspection & it had been several years prior for the treatment. I have a thread in the coffee bar about my experience.
For the op - as mentioned, there are a lot of specific instructions on how to treat for and prevent subterranean termites using various techniques so be sure to look that up to ensure you do it correctly.

 

[VinnyinNJ]

Vinny, Don’t wait much longer to do the next treatment. Some say it can last as long as 15 years in the soil but to be safe stick with the 10yr treatments. We were under the impression that the previous owners of our home had just done the treatment before we purchased. We got termites around 9yrs after purchase. Turns out it was just an inspection & it had been several years prior for the treatment. I have a thread in the coffee bar about my experience.
For the op - as mentioned, there are a lot of specific instructions on how to treat for and prevent subterranean termites using various techniques so be sure to look that up to ensure you do it correctly.

Thanks for this! I have a funny/interesting story about this ... we've been in this house for 23 years and we had termites 11 years ago. I called a local exterminator (I like supporting local businesses when I can) and it was a great experience. I kept the guarantee/warrantee service contract since the extermination was done, it is $100 a year and I figured I will treat it like a time payment to minimize the eventual cost of getting the house treated again. They came in January for the inspection and I asked them about doing a preventative treatment vs waiting until I get termites. The technicians said they would have the salesperson call us - no problem. When he called he said it would cost a few thousand dollars to treat the house, I said I have a contract and am willing to pay $300 to have it done before it's time. He said no, I said OK I'll just wait to use the warrantee. I get a call a few weeks later to follow up and I told them I'm not paying thousands when I have a warrantee - the person on the phone said 'oh that has expired, you need to look at your original contract'. I did and the original contract did state it was good for 5 years but at the discretion of the business it can be extended. I emailed the owner about it, explained that I have happily been paying my $100 a year for this and was never told my warrantee has expired. I received an email back that yes I am covered by the contract that needs to have the house inspected in November (original treatment month) or else the contract will be voided. I suspect I hit a nerve with them.

I look for termites all the time, I spray around the house with Termidor/Taurus 2X every year so I'm not sure if any of that stuff leaks into the ground. I agree it would be great to get a pre-treatment but spending a few thousand is not in the plans at the moment. Personally I don't want to do it myself, trenching the house is a lot of work (I don't know if you can rent the device they use (drill?). I have been lucky with low termite damage - nothing needed to be replaced, I think the previous owners did have some damage that they repaired, the garage seemed to be the area most affected.

 

[Mdragger88]

Thanks for this! I have a funny/interesting story about this ... we've been in this house for 23 years and we had termites 11 years ago. I called a local exterminator (I like supporting local businesses when I can) and it was a great experience. I kept the guarantee/warrantee service contract since the extermination was done, it is $100 a year and I figured I will treat it like a time payment to minimize the eventual cost of getting the house treated again. They came in January for the inspection and I asked them about doing a preventative treatment vs waiting until I get termites. The technicians said they would have the salesperson call us - no problem. When he called he said it would cost a few thousand dollars to treat the house, I said I have a contract and am willing to pay $300 to have it done before it's time. He said no, I said OK I'll just wait to use the warrantee. I get a call a few weeks later to follow up and I told them I'm not paying thousands when I have a warrantee - the person on the phone said 'oh that has expired, you need to look at your original contract'. I did and the original contract did state it was good for 5 years but at the discretion of the business it can be extended. I emailed the owner about it, explained that I have happily been paying my $100 a year for this and was never told my warrantee has expired. I received an email back that yes I am covered by the contract that needs to have the house inspected in November (original treatment month) or else the contract will be voided. I suspect I hit a nerve with them.

I look for termites all the time, I spray around the house with Termidor/Taurus 2X every year so I'm not sure if any of that stuff leaks into the ground. I agree it would be great to get a pre-treatment but spending a few thousand is not in the plans at the moment. Personally I don't want to do it myself, trenching the house is a lot of work (I don't know if you can rent the device they use (drill?). I have been lucky with low termite damage - nothing needed to be replaced, I think the previous owners did have some damage that they repaired, the garage seemed to be the area most affected.

Our house was previously drilled in the bricks (every 12 Inches)& every 12 inches where there is concrete around our house- we are on a slab. So we just re did that using the same holes with appropriate amounts of Taurus with a large sprayer attached to an atv & later refilled the holes with mortar. We measured the spray rate with a bucket and a timer.
We used a foam version of the termidor in the walls where the active termites were & let it sit for weeks before disturbing the walls.
After living through the termites I also wanted to trench but my husband didn’t want to deal with it. We have alot of concrete sidewalks so it would be a little difficult & tear up our flower beds.
We used the rodding technique around our pool deck & shop.

Omg - I think we have a termite or ant problem 😱

This is where my computer cabinet sits. I originally noticed the holes in the flooring from the chair legs & assumed that when i was vigorously cleaning my porch a few months ago (which is on the other side of the wall) that I inadvertently sprayed water behind the siding which got the floor...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[VinnyinNJ]

Our house was previously drilled in the bricks (every 12 Inches)& every 12 inches where there is concrete around our house- we are on a slab. So we just re did that using the same holes with appropriate amounts of Taurus with a large sprayer attached to an atv & later refilled the holes with mortar. We measured the spray rate with a bucket and a timer.
We used a foam version of the termidor in the walls where the active termites were & let it sit for weeks before disturbing the walls.
After living through the termites I also wanted to trench but my husband didn’t want to deal with it. We have alot of concrete sidewalks so it would be a little difficult & tear up our flower beds.
We used the rodding technique around our pool deck & shop.

Omg - I think we have a termite or ant problem 😱

This is where my computer cabinet sits. I originally noticed the holes in the flooring from the chair legs & assumed that when i was vigorously cleaning my porch a few months ago (which is on the other side of the wall) that I inadvertently sprayed water behind the siding which got the floor...

www.troublefreepool.com

The exterminators used their pressure rod for around most of our house, I think they did it at 12 inch intervals. They drilled into the concrete in the garage and on our front porch, they also drilled into our blacktop driveway; they supposedly trenched one area under our deck where they couldn't fit the pressure rod. Trenching is for those of us who don't have that pressure device. I was told by the techs who came out in January that they don't treat a house the same for preventative vs actual infestation and I was thinking WHY?

I was told back then that the Termidor was fairly new and the previous chemical was found not to be too effective. Apparently when not in sunlight the active ingredient, Fibrinil, bonds with the soil for quite a long time. For me 10 years is kind of the max at which it is considered effective. Maybe I will look at a termicide that I can spray on the wood in my garage which is where the termites were. I'm too freaking old to be breaking my back and trenching!

 

[Mdragger88]

I think you mean fipronil - the active ingredient in termidor/taurus.
For completely exposed pieces of wood there are borate products you can use.
For active infestations you have to be careful not to disturb them or they will just move to somewhere else- thus the careful application of foam in the affected walls. Poke a tiny hole & squirt it in there then cover it up with tape & wait a couple weeks . It gives them time to all get some of the good ole poison & it to do its job without them knowing.
Treating only the perimeter will get them eventually (if they are subterranean) but they may consume alot of your home before then
Doing the perimeter preventative & active treatment ourselves cost about $200 & I still have some product left. This of course doesn’t include the repairs. We did it all ourselves so it was really more a pain in the rear than expensive to repair. I also replace the termite stakes every 6 months. I will be taking no chances going forward.

 

[nasparkles]

A concrete pad being worth it is a relatively personal opinion. You have to decide if it’s worth it to you.
Will it work/is it ok to do? - yes, so long as it’s level & properly done to support the weight of the pool (which is 167,000#’s just in water)
Is it kind of expensive? yes.
For most people, the driving reason for getting an above ground pool in the first place is that it is less expensive than other options, pouring an adequate concrete pad negates some of those savings.
You will need to completely disassemble the pool to do this as well, which is not the case for a simple liner exchange.

Okay, thank you again for all of your input! It is greatly appreciated. True, I don't want to spend the money, but I also can't afford to replace my liner every year. If treating the ground before installing the next liner will do the trick, I would definitely choose that option. But all other greatly needed landscaping is on hold pending this problem. I don't want to treat the ground, find it doesn't work, then have a new liner and all the landscaping be wasted while I am then forced to spend more money anyways on the concrete pad. That being said, there are no guarantees in life. Was just trying to see if anyone else had been successful with solving the problem before. Thanks!

 

[Mdragger88]

There are some threads here where folks have done a pad- here’s a few

Google search results

www.troublefreepool.com