This year's Pentair light issues

[jtech1]

I have had annual issues with Pentair lights. My bubbler lights have each been swapped out twice after leaking. So far the third iteration of all of them seems to be holding up for 2nd/3rd year now... keeping fingers crossed.

Now this year, after only 5 years of operation, one of my three 5g color 12V LED lights is acting up with certain colors not working... and my GloBrite appears to have rust trickles on wall under it and water in the light.

My questions I am hoping you can help me with:
1) Should I proactively change the gaskets on all my 5g lights every few years? I assume the gasket has failed on one of mine and caused some colors to not work... and I will need to replace the entire engine on that one.
2) Is the GloBrite gasket replaceable (the light and colors still all work properly), or is it more likely a cracked housing and need a whole new light?

I also had the second failure of the IntelliTouch wireless interface module in four years... so I also need to fork out more $ to replace that... this is getting to be hundreds of dollars a year to replace when i thought was top of teh line equipment that I paid more for in the first place... very frustrating...

 

[jtech1]

We can add to the light issues... IntelliTouch issues... MobileTouch has been working great for 5 years... now it is intermittent... sometimes going into device setup it will say it cant communicate with the device... sometimes it can. Chlorinator... pump... chlorinator seems to not be working at 100%... this morining my FC is not what I expected it would be after pump running at night... go to pad and see IC off, even though pump is on. Cycle Filter relay at IntelliTouch panel and now the IC comes on...

I bought Pentair because I was told it was the best system made. Now my experience over 5 years tells me otherwise. Almost everything that could break, has broken. It is archaic technology.

Is there any other option on the market that will control my Pentair VS/VF pumps and IC? Or would I have to change out EVERYTHING? I am faced with spending over $1000 to get my system back to working order this year... and have spent thousands over the last 5 years to fix things out of warranty... I am very close to being done with dumping $ into Pentair.

 

[guinness]

Have you thought about hardwiring the ScreenLogic2 protocol adapter directly to the IntelliTouch? Just use 22 gauge copper wire (red, yellow, green, black) to match the COM port on IntelliTouch.

 

[ogdento]

I think even with the problems you're having, Pentair is still top tier equipment. LED pool lights seem to be terrible no matter what brand you get... they get wet, corrode, drivers overheat and die and you lose colors etc.

I can't offer much help with the lights, but your Intellichlor not starting is interesting - I'd understand if a 5 year old salt cell didn't generate much chlorine anymore but the thing should at least turn on.

In the following statement, are you talking about the transceiver card for the Mobiletouch, or a wireless link for a Screen Logic (i'm not sure if you even have SL)?

I also had the second failure of the IntelliTouch wireless interface module in four years

That statement about the failed interface module and your Intellichlor not starting makes me think you've got some communication problems. If you've got a dead transceiver and it's still connected to the comm port, it can screw things up. Try disconnecting everything from the comm port(s) except the Intelliflo and Intellichlor and then see if that fixes the problem of it not cycling on.

Tom

 

[Jimrahbe]

J,

Are you looking for advice about how to fix or troubleshoot your system or is your goal just to complain.. We can't do much about how you feel, but we would be glad to try to help you figure out what might be wrong with your system..

Just let us know..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jtech1]

Thanks for all the replies.

1. I have MobileTouch and SceenLogic. I use the wireless module for ScreenLogic to connect pad and protocol adapter. One end or the other died last year. Some lights flash on both ends, but nothing communicates. Pentair support said to just replace it. It was past 1 year warranty. I prefer not to direct wire since it is 100 ft from house one close by lightning strike would take out thousands of dollars of equipment.
2. Is it worth it to change gaskets on 5g lights after 5 years to prevent water leakage? If so, is the rest of the hardware usually good still or do I need to replace the clamp ring and bolt also?
3. Does the GloBrite have a gasket I can replace? The light still works but water is in the housing, so it is only a matter of time before failure.
4. I am not here to complain... but let others know about my experiences... I would NEVER recommend the old Pentair automation systems (especially since I am seeing they have a new model now that seems to bring it into the 2000's with technology). I'm not going to repeat all the reasons I am unhappy with the old IntelliTouch... instead of me sinking a ton of money into getting the old equipment back up and running, from what I have read in other posts, my $ might be better spent with the new Pentair boards, which seem to have a WiFi add on and can be retrofitted into my load center. If I can:
- Program it much easier
- Update firmware via INet
- Eliminate the 485 comm to house and inside protocol adapter completely
- And more...
it may be the better path.

For anyone knowledgeable about the new system...
1) Does the new poolside remote use WiFi or is it another separate radio link like the old MobileTouch?
2) Do the browser and iOS apps ALWAYS need to go through Pentair servers or can they operate locally via local IP or DDNS and port opening on my firewall to expose internal IP?
3) I assume additional relays can be added later? The base board (5 relay) single body, would server my needs now, but if I choose to add additional valves or lighting, I may want to add relays later...

For only a few 100 more than the cost of replacing my old equip, I could have the new model... would appreciate feedback on whether this is a good path.

Thanks!

 

[Jimrahbe]

J,

Let's call @MyAZPool who is the IntelliCenter's local expert... I am sure he can answer your questions..

I agree with your idea of not hard wiring the RS-485.. I did, and my neighbor took a lightning strike and I got what was left over.. Took out the main board on my EasyTouch, the protocol adapter, the cable modem and a switch... I now use the wireless link...

I have a standard white light, as I read too many reports of failed color lights.. Sorry, but I do not have an answer about the gaskets..

I have had three EasyTouch systems for the past five to seven years and other than the lightning strike, have had zero issues... It was fixed by Pentair under warranty.. So just because you have had an issue does not necessarly mean that their entire product line is bad... That said, I can certainly understand your frustrations and why you want a new or different system. Thanks for the feedback..

I believe that you will like what MyAZpool has to say about the new IntelliCenter..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[MyAZPool]

For anyone knowledgeable about the new system...
1) Does the new poolside remote use WiFi or is it another separate radio link like the old MobileTouch?
2) Do the browser and iOS apps ALWAYS need to go through Pentair servers or can they operate locally via local IP or DDNS and port opening on my firewall to expose internal IP?
3) I assume additional relays can be added later? The base board (5 relay) single body, would server my needs now, but if I choose to add additional valves or lighting, I may want to add relays later...

For only a few 100 more than the cost of replacing my old equip, I could have the new model... would appreciate feedback on whether this is a good path.

Thanks!

jtech1
1) I do not utilize any of the the IntelliCenter remotes. I use the iPhone app instead. There are several different remotes that can be utilized with the IntelliCenter (iS4 Spa-Side 4-button controller, QuickTouch II Spa-Side 4-button controller, iS10 10-button controller and SpaCommand 10-button controller). My understanding is that all of the remotes can be wired or can take advantage of an RS-485 Com bus Wireless Controller. There is also an IntelliCenter Control System Wireless Controller (522036) and an IntelliCenter Control System Indoor Control Panel (522035) available. My understanding is that the wireless capability uses RF technology to communicate with the IntelliCenter Panel. The IntelliCenter Control Panel can connected to your network via a WiFi connection or can be hardwired (Cat5/6) via the onboard ethernet port (this is the connection method that I use).

2) The Web Client MUST connect through the Pentair Servers. However, the iOS app can connect to the control panel via a "local" connection (I can only assume that the Android App is the same). This is one of my big complaints to Pentair. Why can I connect locally through the iOS app but not the Web Client? They know about it and maybe this will change in the future.

3) Yes, additional relays can be added later. HOWEVER, you will need to replace the daughter card ONLY, if additional relays past the five (for the i5P/PS or the i8P/PS are added.

Hope this helps to answer your questions.
Please feel free to ping me if you have any further questions on the IntelliCenter.
All-the-best!
r.

 

[jtech1]

MyAZPool... thank you for the info!

1) I know you said you dot use the WiFi link, but do you know if it has any special intelligence, or if any ethernet to WiFI adapter can be used? I assume it is the IC main board that has the ability via IP to talk to Pentair... so I am guessing any WiFI to ENet adapter will work...
2) For the iOS local connect, is it truely only LOCAL on the same internal segment-find panel via broadcast, etc., or can you enter any IP/DDNS and have it work from anywhere directly without Pentair server needed?
3) With the web client that goes through Pentair servers... do the pentair servers serve the pages and only communicate back to panel for data, or does the panel server teh web pages and pentair only pass through?

I read your excellent write up... sounds like I only need the Personality board, wifi link... and a new powersupply/breakers for my loadcenter? I have all breaakers in an external panel, and only use pentair box as pass rthough and relay box. Only system and IC power supplies in the panel box.

Thanks!

 

[MyAZPool]

MyAZPool... thank you for the info!

jtech1
No problem. Lot's of good questions. Let me see if I can take each one separately and see if I can assist.

1) I know you said you dot use the WiFi link, but do you know if it has any special intelligence, or if any ethernet to WiFI adapter can be used? I assume it is the IC main board that has the ability via IP to talk to Pentair... so I am guessing any WiFI to ENet adapter will work...

If you are planning on using a WiFi link to your wireless router, you will require the IntelliCenter WiFi kit (Wireless Client Bridge Antenna and Power Module). This is normally bundled with some of the various IntelliCenter Systems (Personality Kits). In your case, you will need to buy everything "a la carte", since you already have the Power Center. Here are a couple of illustrations from the IntelliCenter Control System Installation Guide that depict the various wireless connections. These should be useful in answering your wireless questions. I always get a lot more info from pictures ...

2) For the iOS local connect, is it truely only LOCAL on the same internal segment-find panel via broadcast, etc., or can you enter any IP/DDNS and have it work from anywhere directly without Pentair server needed?

Great question.
You can query the IP address of the IntelliCenter Control Panel from your iOS device and you can connect locally but here is the "kicker". In order to login to the Control Panel (from the iOS app), you have to have a internet connection to the Pentair Servers in order for your login to be authenticated. I discovered this fact, using this method.

1. I turned off my modem. Then opened the app and clicked login. It just went on the "clock" and would not authenticate.​

2. I then turned on the modem. Again, I opened the app and clicked login. Once my login was authenticated through the Pentair Servers, then it allowed me to click "local".​

Once I was connected to the control panel locally, I then turned off the modem and operated my various pool devices locally with no problem and without an internet connection. So not a true local connection, since you need the Pentair servers to authenticate your login first. Yikes...​

I wish the Control Panel was doing the local authentication instead of the servers. I know it can, because you can login to the control panel (at the panel if you have password authentication activated).​

3) With the web client that goes through Pentair servers... do the pentair servers serve the pages and only communicate back to panel for data, or does the panel server teh web pages and pentair only pass through?

Yea, the web client pages are different from what you see on the Control Panel. So it appears that the servers communicate back to the panel and grab the data and then use that data for the web client pages.

I read your excellent write up... sounds like I only need the Personality board, wifi link... and a new powersupply/breakers for my loadcenter? I have all breaakers in an external panel, and only use pentair box as pass rthough and relay box. Only system and IC power supplies in the panel box.
Thanks!

Thanks. I agree. My guess is that the following is all you would need based on the information you have provided in this thread, but please give PolyTec Pools a call and explain to them what you are doing and they will get you on the right track.
IntelliCenter Personality Kit:

IF YOU HAVE A SPA - i5PS 521912 (includes the i5P mother card, the i5PS daughter card and two (2) IntelliValves)​

IF NO SPA - i5P 521909 (includes just the i5P mother card ONLY) No need for the shared body of water card.​

IntelliCenter WiFi Link Kit 522475Z (Primary Client Bridge). Includes wireless antenna assembly, power module and necessary cables.

IntelliCenter System Transformer 522102Z (you will be replacing your current system transformer). Just follow my instructions regarding this procedure, in my thread titled Pentair IntelliCenter Review. If you have any questions regarding this procedure, just ping me and I will be happy to assist.

Hope I have been of assistance and feel free to reach out to me if you have any more questions...
All-the-best..
r.

 

[jtech1]

Thank you, again, for the detailed info... the diagrams help a lot.

It really appears that the WiFi module/power module is just an ethernet to WiFi adapter... with a POE injector to the antenna... at about 1/10 the cost of what Pentair sells theirs for... I may have to do some testing with this.

Is the iOS app the same as the old one, or is it a new app?

 

[MyAZPool]

jtech1

It really appears that the WiFi module/power module is just an ethernet to WiFi adapter... with a POE injector to the antenna... at about 1/10 the cost of what Pentair sells theirs for... I may have to do some testing with this.

Agreed. I guess you can try using a "home brew" WiFi bridge setup. It can't hurt anything I don't believe. If it doesn't work, then you can order the Pentair WiFi kit. The only thing is that the Power Module can get power from the 24v WiFi bridge 2-pin connector on the mother card. That's a nice advantage it appears.

Is the iOS app the same as the old one, or is it a new app?

I don't know. I never had any hands-on experience with IntelliTouch/EasyTouch/Screenlogic automation systems. IntelliCenter was my first automation system. It's true that I do have an IntelliTouch Load Center. The reason for that was at the time I was upgrading my pool equipment, I wanted to get a head start. IntelliCenter was still a couple of months out from release when I got started. So I found a new IntelliTouch Load Center on eBay for a really good price. So in the long run, I probably saved a few hundred bucks by going that route.

Since it appears that you have an EasyTouch system currently, below are just a few screen shots of my IntelliCenter iOS app. You can compare these to your ScreenLogic based iOS app and see what the differences are, if any.
Take care!
r.

 

[jtech1]

I notice my iOS app is updated since last year (ScreenLogic)... and looks like refreshed... but still not the same as yours... I do see they have a new app called IntelliCenter... I loade dit but seems to be no demo system to look at all, like in old ScreenLogic.

On the issue with my chlorinator... I was away for a week (exploring AZ area with family, coincidentally... absolutely incredible). Came home to see unit was not powered on again. Started diagnosing.. checked power at daughter card where IC plugs in, and I see 28VDC... two power pin slots on connector are brown. I re-seated the connector and the IC-60 powered on. I am going to watch it for a while to see if it stays on now. Just curious if anyone has seen this happen on the IC-60 power leads.

@MyAZPool... I have the old i9+3s now... with 9 relays. I only use 6 of them currently. I don't have a spa... I bought the i9+3s so I had the capability later if we add one, but never did. I would get the i5P pool only version of the updated system... since i already have the 9 relays, what would I need with the i5P to get the additional relays working? Thanks!

 

[guinness]

I know you said you dot use the WiFi link, but do you know if it has any special intelligence, or if any ethernet to WiFI adapter can be used? I assume it is the IC main board that has the ability via IP to talk to Pentair... so I am guessing any WiFI to ENet adapter will work...

I have the wireless client bridge which is a rebadged EnGenius ENS202EXT, but this model has a PTC suffix. I assume it has custom firmware to communicate w/ the panel for settings, but I've been unable to access the admin web UI which is likely intentional.

Wifi range on the device is very poor, considering it's high power at 400mW with my indoor router at 12mW. My cellphone at the same location (with no external antennas and at around 100 feet away) can connect to my router fine. The only way I could get wifi working was to move the router to around 50 feet away by a window and even then it only had about 2 bars showing. I don't believe it's a faulty unit since user sanspeur had the same issue.

A frustrating aspect is that whenever you try to change a wifi setting it has to restart the client bridge for it to take effect, including connecting to a wifi AP. The another irritating thing is that the only indication the panel is connected to wifi is a Pentair icon showing in the upper right of the touchscreen, but there is no way to see what wifi ssid it's connected to in setttings.

NOTE: Make sure that your router is not using WPA as it still lets you attempt connection but silently fails. See table 5 from Configuring a Standalone EnGenius AP copied below. It would be nice if Pentair shows a warning when attempting connection as you will have no idea why you can't connect even though other devices can.

Variable	Recommended Setting	Explanation
Security Mode	WPA2-PSK	WPA has been deprecated. Do not use WPA-PSK or WPA-PSK Mixed. Only use WPA2-PSK.
Encryption	AES	WEP and TKIP have been deprecated. Only use AES.
Passphrase	{8 - 63 characters}	Best practices for security is to use a mixture of capital letters, lower case letters, numbers, and special characters. Passphrase ideally should be at least 15 characters in length, and not be a dictionary word or phrase.
Group Key Update Interval	3600 seconds [default]	Frequency at which AP should generate a new group key for broadcast messages to all connected clients.

I read your excellent write up... sounds like I only need the Personality board, wifi link... and a new powersupply/breakers for my loadcenter? I have all breaakers in an external panel, and only use pentair box as pass rthough and relay box. Only system and IC power supplies in the panel box.

It's a little unclear to me what existing Intellitouch enclosure you have, is it the power center or load center? If the latter, you could move breakers from your subpanel into it if you wanted. Do you have any photos you can share?

 

[jtech1]

Thanks for the feedback.

I would be surprised if there is any Pentair specific firmware in the WiFi module... since the entire system works fine with just an Ethernet connection.

I have the load center... but I decided not to use the internal breaker slots since there were not enough for what I needed (I have a heat pump, four pumps, lights, etc.). So the load center box is just a pass through on the 120/240 side.

 

[MyAZPool]

jtech1

On the issue with my chlorinator... I was away for a week (exploring AZ area with family, coincidentally... absolutely incredible). Came home to see unit was not powered on again. Started diagnosing.. checked power at daughter card where IC plugs in, and I see 28VDC... two power pin slots on connector are brown. I re-seated the connector and the IC-60 powered on. I am going to watch it for a while to see if it stays on now. Just curious if anyone has seen this happen on the IC-60 power leads.

I have not personally had that happen to me with my IntelliCenter. I have not heard if anyone with IT or ET has had that happen to them.

@MyAZPool... I have the old i9+3s now... with 9 relays. I only use 6 of them currently. I don't have a spa... I bought the i9+3s so I had the capability later if we add one, but never did. I would get the i5P pool only version of the updated system... since i already have the 9 relays, what would I need with the i5P to get the additional relays working? Thanks!

Since you have no spa, I would recommend the following:
Since you have 9 relays and no spa, possibly your best bet would be to order the - 521909 IntelliCenter Personality Kit I5P, Single Body. (includes just the i5P mother card ONLY). That would allow you to use 5 of your relays.
Then, if you want to use five (5) more relays (you would need to order one more relay), you could get the 521993Z IntelliCenter i10P Personality Daughter Card. (This is the expansion card that slide connects to the i5P Mother Card. You would then have a ten (10) relay capability.

Then of course the IntelliCenter System Transformer 522102Z (Includes the transformer, wiring harness and applicable low voltage circuit breaker replacements), to convert your IT Load center to an IntelliCenter Load Center.

When you're ready to move forward, give PolyTec Pools and let them confirm the above.
r.

 

[MyAZPool]

I would be surprised if there is any Pentair specific firmware in the WiFi module... since the entire system works fine with just an Ethernet connection.

Maybe just ditch the WiFi. Run a low voltage conduit (with Cat5e or 6) or a direct burial outdoor shielded Cat5e or 6 from your router in the house to the load center low voltage raceway and rid yourself of the anomalies of a WiFi connection and save yourself about $400.00 as well.

 

[guinness]

They did express that they were against direct wiring due to concerns about nearby lightning strikes. I think you could mitigate that by having the conduit buried 18" deep and adding surge protection as well.

 

[MyAZPool]

They did express that they were against direct wiring due to concerns about nearby lightning strikes. I think you could mitigate that by having the conduit buried 18" deep and adding surge protection as well.

I guess that would be a consideration. My Cat5e is buried in conduit about 15" down.
However, I would think that the WiFi antenna would be more susceptible to a lightning strike and it is connected to the ether port of the mother card as well.
Who knows.
I like that surge protector that you linked to. That might be more useful if one were using the WiFi antenna.
Thanks for sharing..
r.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Surge protection will not help as it will only protect "stuff" that comes in on the AC power line.

Burying the cable will not really help either ..I used to work for an audiovisual company that sold to really rich people like Tiger Woods etc.. We got back a lot of units that had obvious lightning damage.. it would blow the top off, or blacken, IC chips.. In almost every case the units were installed in a secondary location, like pool house, boat house, or guest house and connected to the main house by low voltage cables.. The cables were installed both underground, as well as in the air, and it did not seem to matter one way or the other..

I used to brag that I did not use no stinking wireless link.. It worked great.... right up to the point where my neighbor took a direct lighting strike and I got what was left over.. It was pretty obvious that in came in on my hard-wire between the EasyTouch and my house network.. It took out the main board in the EasyTouch, and then the Protocol adapter, the u Verse Modem, and the router and everything that router had plugged into it. I now run the wireless link.. I knew the risk from working at the Audiovisual company, but did it anyway.. Sigh!!

If the same thing happens again, (knock on wood) I would expect the outdoor antenna and maybe the main board would be taken out again.. But, at least all the stuff in the house would not be involved..

It is your system and you can obviously do what floats your boat, but my boat hit the rocks and sank, so I won't be using the hard-wire solution again.

Edit.. I just saw the surge protection that you link to... That was the "fix" for the problem that the audiovisual company was going to use, but I never did get any info on how successful it was.

Thanks,

Jim R.