Been working with a pb and they have dug the hole, put in plumbing, rebar, equipment and some electrical. I admit I should have asked better questions but every time I tried to dig into details designer/salesman said we could talk about that later. He's never even come to my house and as soon as contract was signed didn't really care anymore. Well now it's later and I'm not happy about some aspects of the build. It also failed city inspection yesterday for a couple issues. I have already given them 30% and don't really trust or want to work with the company any longer but don't really know how to find subcontractors to finish the job. I'm in Phoenix and wondering if anyone could recommend a GC or provide any recommendations? Anyone have any experience with trying to fire a PB? I'm not sure if they are going to try to get more money from me. Appreciate your time.
Thinking about firing PB but not sure how to complete project
- Thread starter PWMac
- Start date
Traditionally, contractors want a premium to be responsible for anything they didn't do. Some even refuse unless they rip everything out and start over. (Paying for that too).
Breaking your contract may require oodles of litigation and lawyers fees and you may have to pay the PB a good chunk to agree to part ways.
Firing the PB is usually a last resort.
Breaking your contract may require oodles of litigation and lawyers fees and you may have to pay the PB a good chunk to agree to part ways.
Firing the PB is usually a last resort.
You signed a contract, one that likely favors the builder. It’s not going to be easy to break.
Have they breached the contract? Failed inspection is not good enough, assuming they fix the issue.
It’s not the builders fault you signed a contract without having your questions answered.
It’s not unusual for the salesperson to be uninvolved during construction, from my experience.
Firing the builder should be your last resort.
Have they breached the contract? Failed inspection is not good enough, assuming they fix the issue.
It’s not the builders fault you signed a contract without having your questions answered.
It’s not unusual for the salesperson to be uninvolved during construction, from my experience.
Firing the builder should be your last resort.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,869
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Strictly from a financial angle, it will be cheaper, and way less stress, to hire a better pool contractor, but just as a consultant. Contract with him to inspect the work at intervals that makes sense (before the gunite, before the plaster, before the coping and deck work, etc). I would think four or five half-hour inspections should cover you. He'll tell you when to call him for an inspection.
Have the guy create a punch list of anything he finds wrong, and then hand that over to your builder. Be sure the punch list gets completed, before the next stage is begun.
I don't actually know if that will work, or if you could find such a guy, or how the current builder would react if he found out about the scheme, but I'm pretty sure the fees for that service would be considerably less than trying to switch contractors, even if the current builder was willing. If he puts up a fight, then you'll just be pumping much more money into a lawyer's wallet, and who knows how much more money into guarding your construction site from the weather and from causing injuries. 'cause if you try to bail now, you can count on looking at that hole for all of 2024 and maybe even 2025.
Have the guy create a punch list of anything he finds wrong, and then hand that over to your builder. Be sure the punch list gets completed, before the next stage is begun.
I don't actually know if that will work, or if you could find such a guy, or how the current builder would react if he found out about the scheme, but I'm pretty sure the fees for that service would be considerably less than trying to switch contractors, even if the current builder was willing. If he puts up a fight, then you'll just be pumping much more money into a lawyer's wallet, and who knows how much more money into guarding your construction site from the weather and from causing injuries. 'cause if you try to bail now, you can count on looking at that hole for all of 2024 and maybe even 2025.
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- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,869
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Just wanted to clarify: you cannot rely on the city's inspectors to do what I'm suggesting above. They're looking for code violations, they may or may not call out quality issues, and even if they do it'll only be the glaring ones. You need a pool contractor, a specialist, to eyeball every detail, and write up anything that he sees that he wouldn't let pass if it were his pool. Those two types of inspections can be wildly different. And the city's inspectors might not even be contractors. If they are, what are the chances they are pool contractors? And even if you get one, there is no guarantee that he will do every inspection. You could end up with a rotating cast of inspectors, each with different qualifications. You need someone on your side.
All of the above. Share your concerns with us with pictures so we can really see what you are seeing. We may be able to help you out as far as if it needs fixing and how to do so.
Thank you for all your feedback and @Dirk we are going to have another PB come out and look at it to get their perspective but we are going to try to work with them to get it completed.
My main concerns are they were lazy and put the infloor vacuum tubes in my yard instead of over by the rest of the pool equipment, they used a plastic slab for equipment instead of giving us a choice, the slab for equipment is 2" lower than AC slab next to it so I worry about drainage, they damaged the fins of the heat pump when installing, the placement of footers for pergola being on top of plumbing and running the electrical down the side of the house instead of digging a trench. I sent them a list of 10 things. They want $2400 to move the infloor pipes and I just think the designer did a poor job explaining things and giving options.
My main concerns are they were lazy and put the infloor vacuum tubes in my yard instead of over by the rest of the pool equipment, they used a plastic slab for equipment instead of giving us a choice, the slab for equipment is 2" lower than AC slab next to it so I worry about drainage, they damaged the fins of the heat pump when installing, the placement of footers for pergola being on top of plumbing and running the electrical down the side of the house instead of digging a trench. I sent them a list of 10 things. They want $2400 to move the infloor pipes and I just think the designer did a poor job explaining things and giving options.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,869
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
All of your concerns are legit. The problem is, this is what masquerades as construction these days. Where consumers must become inspectors and general contractors, just to make sure they get a mediocre job!
A construction project is now a constant negotiation. You're at their mercy, and they know it. Stand your ground. Fight the battles you can win.
But you do have some leverage, if you don't pay him for more than he has produced. That's the key. Many (I wanna say most) contractors are living day to day, robbing Peter to pay Paul. He cannot afford to have a payment delayed, and often times will ask for one before its time. If he does that, that's the clue, that you now have the upper hand. Or at least some hand.
Lastly, if you have a dispute about somethings that is merely "how you would do it" vs "how he would do it," there is not much you can do about that. He does have some discretion about how he builds your pool, as long as the end result satisfies the plans and the building codes. But...
There is a thing known as "Construction Standards" that might apply (it's known by various names). A contractor cannot just build something any which way, or cut corners, but do sub-par work. He is legally liable for some degree of quality. I cannot define it, but a local attorney should be able to. Again, you can't rely on city inspectors for it. And maybe not even some other contractor, who might have his own inaccurate ideas about what it means. But it is something you'll hear in a court case, and then a judge decides what it means (usually based on some sort of expert witness testimony). Anywho, you get the gist.
You have his money, and you have a right, a legal right, to expect a certain level of quality. That's your leverage.
A construction project is now a constant negotiation. You're at their mercy, and they know it. Stand your ground. Fight the battles you can win.
But you do have some leverage, if you don't pay him for more than he has produced. That's the key. Many (I wanna say most) contractors are living day to day, robbing Peter to pay Paul. He cannot afford to have a payment delayed, and often times will ask for one before its time. If he does that, that's the clue, that you now have the upper hand. Or at least some hand.
Lastly, if you have a dispute about somethings that is merely "how you would do it" vs "how he would do it," there is not much you can do about that. He does have some discretion about how he builds your pool, as long as the end result satisfies the plans and the building codes. But...
There is a thing known as "Construction Standards" that might apply (it's known by various names). A contractor cannot just build something any which way, or cut corners, but do sub-par work. He is legally liable for some degree of quality. I cannot define it, but a local attorney should be able to. Again, you can't rely on city inspectors for it. And maybe not even some other contractor, who might have his own inaccurate ideas about what it means. But it is something you'll hear in a court case, and then a judge decides what it means (usually based on some sort of expert witness testimony). Anywho, you get the gist.
You have his money, and you have a right, a legal right, to expect a certain level of quality. That's your leverage.
Quickly skimming the thread has me asking if you’ve sat down with the builder and actually discussed this issue with them, face to face?
I have met with the super at my house but he says all changes have to go through designer. The designer never came out to my house to walk through the plan, even though I asked a couple times. Right now it seems like we are past that point and we're going to have to live with the plan as it is because the changes are expensive.