Thinking about a pool..wanting automation...no pool guy...little maintenance

[Stone76]

This is an incredible forum. The available real-time knowledge on here is amazing. Thank you, all!

Wife and I would love a pool/spa. We don't want to hire a pool guy and I want to use the latest technologies to automate as much as possible.

I get the sense that most of you are very passionate about maintaining a pool which I highly respect. However, I'm not that interested in maintenance. I'm interested in enjoying clean pool water, sun, adult beverages, and using my iPhone to operate it as much as possible. I'll pause while the internet tomatoes hit my screen....

I understand that with such an attitude most of you might suggest I not build a pool. You are probably correct. However, we still want one Happy wife = happy life. Frustrated husband maintaining a pool = more money to hire a pool guy that I don't want to hire.

I'd love to get your expert opinions on the following question (even though I know most of you would not be interested in building an overtly automated pool)...... BUT, if you HAD to build a pool that required as much automation as possible and as hands-free as possible, AND money was no object, what equipment would you use?

• Variable Speed Pump - seems like a no brainer
• Intellichem or similar automated delivery system? - so that chemicals, etc are automatically delivered to the pool at just the right amounts for you as allegedly advertised?
• Infloor cleaning system? - remember it needs to be as hands-free/automated as possible and no pool guy. Removing a robot with a hose attached even once a week to be able to swim is not hands-free.
• ScreenLogic? - control everything from the iPhone?

We are almost in 2019 - Why aren't pools more automated by now and why aren't we demanding it (or are we?)?!

If you HAD to go with automation would you do any of the above? Are there much better equipment options that automate much better than those mentioned above?
Be patient with me....I'm learning.

Thanks!

 

[pabeader]

I've a thought. Why not think bout the wife doing the testing. It's really fun and really makes you feel great to know that YOU are in control. It's kind of amazing how it makes you feel. Automation is out there and it can do pretty much everything. Unfortunately, all electronic systems will eventually need something. I'd much rather do the simple stuff myself and let the automation do things like turn on the pumps, lights and stuff like that.

 

[Stone76]

Thanks for the reply. There is only one person in control at this house and it ain’t me. Ha.
I’ve read a lot of comments on here as it relates to automation and most think it’s a total waste of money. Is it a waste because they’d rather do things themselves or is it a waste because the automation options just aren’t very good?
I really wish there was a lot more data out there proving the effectiveness of these technologies. It’s hard to sort out feelings and get to the facts/data. Thanks again.

 

[ajw22]

Pool Realities 101:

Automation works until is doesn't. Then you have to figure out what is going on or try and pay someone to figure it out. The outdoor environment pool equipment lives in is harsh and every season something will not work right.

You still have to load chemicals into Intellichem. And Intellichem equipment needs annual servicing by someone.

Infloor cleaning systems do not clean the pool as well as a dedicated cleaner. For many people there are places the IFC does not get. And while they may work the first few years they seem to eventually have problems if you expect the pool to last 10 or 20 or 30 years.

Bottom line, you can design a low maintenance pool. But it still needs periodic checks of the chemicals to see everything is operating correctly. Otherwise your first indication of trouble is when the pool turns green with algae. And when it does that the automation will not fix it and the pool becomes high maintenance to get rid of the algae problem.

 

[Stone76]

Thank you for keeping it real.

I do recognize that keeping a close eye on things and making sure the automation units are fed/monitored throughout the week will be essential.

IntelliChem question - on the whole, does it perform as advertised (recognizing that all technologies have hiccups from time to time of course)? Does it really know if the pool is balanced correctly and feeds chemicals in accordingly?

IFC - I’ve read mixed reviews on here. Seems like those who have most recently installed them seem pretty happy with them. Perhaps they’ve improved the last year or so? Brushing/sweeping a few spots once a week seems like a lot less maintenance than loading/unloading robot and hoses?

 

[ajw22]

Intellichem only tries to manage PH and CL. It does not handle CH, CYA, or TA. And it does not balance all your chemicals within the proper CSI range.

 

[Stone76]

Thank you for the intel!

 

[Stone76]

Excuse my ignorance - my understanding is that I can use IntelliChem with a SWG. Will the SWG help me manage CH, CYA, and TA?

If not, is there a way to automate managing those?

 

[MyAZPool]

This is an incredible forum. The available real-time knowledge on here is amazing. Thank you, all!

Wife and I would love a pool/spa. We don't want to hire a pool guy and I want to use the latest technologies to automate as much as possible.

I get the sense that most of you are very passionate about maintaining a pool which I highly respect. However, I'm not that interested in maintenance. I'm interested in enjoying clean pool water, sun, adult beverages, and using my iPhone to operate it as much as possible. I'll pause while the internet tomatoes hit my screen....

I understand that with such an attitude most of you might suggest I not build a pool. You are probably correct. However, we still want one Happy wife = happy life. Frustrated husband maintaining a pool = more money to hire a pool guy that I don't want to hire.

I'd love to get your expert opinions on the following question (even though I know most of you would not be interested in building an overtly automated pool)...... BUT, if you HAD to build a pool that required as much automation as possible and as hands-free as possible, AND money was no object, what equipment would you use?

• Variable Speed Pump - seems like a no brainer
• Intellichem or similar automated delivery system? - so that chemicals, etc are automatically delivered to the pool at just the right amounts for you as allegedly advertised?
• Infloor cleaning system? - remember it needs to be as hands-free/automated as possible and no pool guy. Removing a robot with a hose attached even once a week to be able to swim is not hands-free.
• ScreenLogic? - control everything from the iPhone?

We are almost in 2019 - Why aren't pools more automated by now and why aren't we demanding it (or are we?)?!

If you HAD to go with automation would you do any of the above? Are there much better equipment options that automate much better than those mentioned above?
Be patient with me....I'm learning.

Thanks!

Hi.
I certainly concur with Allen's comments and not to hijack, but I would just add the following from my own perspective;

I would try to steer clear of in-floor cleaning systems. Good idea originally but just didn't really work as advertised and they can be some added headaches and expense. Instead, you might want to consider investing in one of the newer high tech robotic cleaners. They have really improved and some have a lot of electronic gadgetry (bluetooth controlled, programming for your exact swimming pool specs, etc. etc.)... One day soon, I plan on retiring "Rita" my trusty and reliable Hayward suction cleaner and invest in some newer cleaner technology.

I did a lot of research regarding IntelliChem versus IntellipH. Lot's of promises made with IntelliChem, but from what I could glean from all of the SME's here on TFP, lot's of maintenance just to keep it going (ORP issues etc.) Unless you want to be a real pool geek (like some of us) and fiddle all the time, you might want to take a look at IntellipH instead for your muriatic acid management.

Don't forget to take a look at the new Pentair IntelliCenter. When you factor in the cost of screen logic (which you will not need with IntelliCenter) plus the cost of either the Easy Touch or IntelliTouch , it's about a wash on price and you get a more streamlined automation system with the added ability for future firmware upgrades that may take advantage of future technologies.

These are just my own personal thoughts and you will get lots of good advice here on TFP. Take it all in, do your own comparisons, ask more questions here and then make your own decisions based on the info and advice that you received, what your requirements are and how big your wallet is ...

r...

 

[Jimrahbe]

76,

Have you ever seen on TV, or at the State Fair, the "Rel-Co - Slicer and Dicer"? The demonstrator, can cut a rusted padlock off of a footlocker and then use the same knife to cut the thinnest slices off a mushy tomato.. Then when you try it at home, it just does not seem to work the same way...

The IntelliChem is about the same.. a lot of promises that only work in the perfect world, but in reality, it never works like the one being hyped..

And, just to be picky... robots do NOT have hoses and I can pull my robot out of the pool faster than you can get your brush off the wall..

Closed loop systems, which use systems like the IntelliChem as the "brains" of the operation, depend on everything being perfect.. This is rarely the case.

Open loop systems, such as a SWCG and Acid Feeder, which use the pool owner's brain to make decisions are the closest thing to a no maintenance pool there is. They do all the work and you only have to make sure they are doing what they are told.

Thanks for providing me the opportunity to throw a few tomatoes..

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

Excuse my ignorance - my understanding is that I can use IntelliChem with a SWG. Will the SWG help me manage CH, CYA, and TA?

If not, is there a way to automate managing those?

No & No. SWG just generates a fixed amount of CL depending on the settings you set.

 

[Stone76]

Thank you. I did see Intellicenter and I’ll checkout IntelliPH. Thank you! I was looking at the new dolphin robot “vacuum cleaner for your pool” and it looks pretty awesome. I imagine a future without a chord attached.

Thank you for your insights!

 

[Stone76]

Mr. Jim,

Your TV slicer is so spot on! Hard to separate fact from fiction. It’s exactly what I’m fearful of.

Came on here and got all excited about SWG and then spoke with 2 of the largest pool builders in my area (one allegedly the largest in the country) and they acted like SWG are worse than the taliban. When I asked both of them why they don’t tell the leading manufacturer of SWGs in the country to stop offering them if they are as bad as they say they are and their responses were the same - almost word for word: we have told them of the problems and at year 4 pool owners start complaining because the salt starts causing major problems with everything. We will make you sign a waiver and will not warranty your pool or decking. We’d rather not build a salt pool and strongly encourage you not to do it.
Why would these pool builders say these things? Are they paid more to not put in SWG? Are they pretending there are problems that aren’t really there?

So, it makes it hard to get to the truth with such varying opinions on just about everything pool related.

Your robot comment.... most of the ones I’ve seen at friends pools all seem to have hoses and chords and they’ve all told me how much they wish they didn’t have to deal with them. The last 2 pools I went to the kids were swimming around the chords/hoses and when I asked about it they said they didn’t feel like dealing with pulling them out.

Which robot would you recommend I look at that is easy to deploy and recover? I did see the new Dolphin and it looks pretty awesome. Wish it was cordless though.

Thank you, sir for sharing your knowledge and experience.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Your request for a automated low maintenance pool are actually no-brainer for most who have an interest in installing a pool. I did, and when things go smooth for my pool for weeks and then they don’t I have the same thoughts. Why aren’t we more evolved?

Allen hit it spot on that pools live in harsh environments. It’s very primal—dig a hole, slather with concrete and steel and pour water in...oh and a bunch of noxious chems and salt sounds like a real winner too! All while baking in sun or freezing in winter. There’s a clock on everything...plaster...pipes...electrical. All depreciating in your precious water hole to be replaced or repaired very soon.

I purchased my current home with an IFC. I put a lot into repairing it myself and now it works great. I rarely vacuum, only brush occasionally and that’s it. No swimming around tubes or electrical wires=glorious! I have desert landscaping and a 6 foot block wall around my pool, so I rarely get large debris in the pool unless there’s a wind storm, so that factors in also. If I built a pool, it’s not worth the cost to install IFC with robot cleaners so efficient these days. Since I have an IFC, I’m a proponent, but it was installed in 1987 and ‘if ya got it betta flaunt it’ and it has its benefits above rolling cleaners so I do love it and maintain it. If price were no object? Eh, maybe install IFC, but too many more chances for leaks.

Adding an SWG and a stenner pump for acid can be added into off-shelf automation as other ways to reduce maintenance, so the tech is evolving. I really enjoy pool maintenance, but some times it’s a frustrating experience.

Oh, you’re not the only one to hear pool pros knock SWGs. Many I know are against them and are OG liquid CL to their grave.

 

[pabeader]

Stone76 - From all my reading, it's mostly the Texas area builders that are against SWGs. It's because of the soft local stone they use for the decking. As far as any other issues they may talk about, those are almost always due to non TFPC balancing of pH and other levels.

 

[Stone76]

Thank you, KD! How deep is your pool? One PB encouraged me to do a hybrid - some IFC complimented by robot for “less money”. Interesting concept. Our back yard is mostly shaded throughout the day and zero heavy debris. It’s possible with heavy winds some bigger leaves could fall in, but there is no raking of leaves or anything like that. Most of the vegetation would be behind a ~12-18” wall and would span the entire length of the pool. The ends of the pool would be mostly travertine with modest strips of of grass along the fence line on both ends beyond the decking. We’d have a large sun deck on one end that would likely need to be brushed by me or vacuumed by robot. Does IFC really work on sun decks and stairs? The rest is spa, and a smaller single bench in the deep-end. I’m guessing that the debris I would see most often in the pool might be flakes of mulch. However, most all of the mulch would be behind the wall.

Papabear - yes, it does seem like a Texas thing. We’d go travertine all the way if we do a pool so that should help I’d think. The PBs seriously act like the salt system will literally eat my entire backyard alive and they won’t be there to stand behind any warranties - shell, equipment, nothing. I spoke with the owner of one of the companies because I kept haggling the sales guy about SWG and he was seriously emphatic about it. He was very professional, but very emphatic that I should not consider it.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Mr. Jim,

Your TV slicer is so spot on! Hard to separate fact from fiction. It’s exactly what I’m fearful of.

Came on here and got all excited about SWG and then spoke with 2 of the largest pool builders in my area (one allegedly the largest in the country) and they acted like SWG are worse than the taliban. When I asked both of them why they don’t tell the leading manufacturer of SWGs in the country to stop offering them if they are as bad as they say they are and their responses were the same - almost word for word: we have told them of the problems and at year 4 pool owners start complaining because the salt starts causing major problems with everything. We will make you sign a waiver and will not warranty your pool or decking. We’d rather not build a salt pool and strongly encourage you not to do it.
Why would these pool builders say these things? Are they paid more to not put in SWG? Are they pretending there are problems that aren’t really there?

So, it makes it hard to get to the truth with such varying opinions on just about everything pool related.

Your robot comment.... most of the ones I’ve seen at friends pools all seem to have hoses and chords and they’ve all told me how much they wish they didn’t have to deal with them. The last 2 pools I went to the kids were swimming around the chords/hoses and when I asked about it they said they didn’t feel like dealing with pulling them out.

Which robot would you recommend I look at that is easy to deploy and recover? I did see the new Dolphin and it looks pretty awesome. Wish it was cordless though.

Thank you, sir for sharing your knowledge and experience.

76,

Most SWCG hysteria is all word of mouth.. "I heard of a guy who said all of his coping disappeared overnight because he had a saltwater pool".. But when asked, can provide no proof.. You would think that after years of asking for some real evidence of damage caused by saltwater, that we would have at least a few pictures.. But so far none!!!

I have three saltwater pools and live in Texas.. I have seen zero saltwater related problems with any of my pools. The salt level in a saltwater pools is about the same as what is in your tears, 3,500 ppm, not like the ocean which is 35,000 ppm.

As Bob has said, the main problem for Houston pool builders is the stone they want to use as coping. If I had to choose between coping or a SWCG, the SWCG wins every time. Just use a different coping if you are worried about it..

I also believe that SWCGs were sold as set and forget items and when they did not work, pool builders were getting too many call backs.. SWCG's are not at all set and forget.. you still have to monitor the water and make sure the SWCG is doing what needs to be done.

Another pool builder problem is that they did not size the cells properly. They installed cells rated at 20K into 20K pools.. While you would think that would work, it does not, because cell outputs are rated when running 24/7 at 100%. So, pool owners were running their pools for 8 hours a day and then could not understand why their pools would turn green. We always recommend installing a cell that is at least 2 x the volume of your pool.

Pool builders all love to install a 3" chlorine tablet dispensers.. This is because when your pool turns green, it has nothing to do with them..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[duraleigh]

All interesting advice above. I want to address your first post, wherein you are looking for something so hands free you don't have to lift a finger.

That's not gonna happen. Purchase ALL the automation you want but when your pool goes South, your lack of hands on experience will come back to bite you hard.

So, if you get a pool, please don't think all the whiz-bangs you can purchase will be responsible for adequate pool care. That almost totally depends on you.......you cannot get electronics and machinery to take your place.

 

[Bvacchiano]

I live in HOUSTON and I wouldn’t trade my SWG for anything. As said above get the right coping and pay the money to get a top of the line sealer. As far as automation goes I wouldn’t trade my EZTouch and ScreenLogic for ANYTHING. I like to be able to change things on the fly. I’m out of town now and decided to run my cleaner again after looking at my Ring! Click,Click watch cleaner running from Ring. Who doesn’t want to be able to set schedules for their pool equipment from their phone, turn, turn there spa and water features on from there phone, and when feeling extremely lazy tell Alexa to do all this???

With that said I’m testing my water myself with the TF-100. My buddy has the Intellichem and Intelliph and hates it. Very inaccurate for PH. Always .2-.4 off no matter how many times it’s been calibrated or replaced and as far as FC is concerned nothing replaces the chlorine drop test in my opinion plus you have no choice but to physically test for CH,TA,and CYA anyway. It’s easy once you get hang of it.

 

[Stone76]

Appreciate all of the experience and perspectives. I think I need to spend a lot more time understanding what it’s going to take to service a pool before I move forward.

I agree that I should know how to do things manually before I turn things over to the “robot”.