Tanning ledge too small

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I would hold his feet to the fire. The most you stand to lose is $425 plus your cost for the arbitration. This is peanuts compared to the total cost of the pool and a lifetime of dissatisfaction and regret. You paid for it -- get what you want.
 
I don't understand why the PB didn't simply direct the gunite crew to make the ledge larger -- was he even there?? This is going to be hard to fix now that all of your finishes are in place. Sometimes the patch is worse than the problem.
 

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I am always saddened by these types of threads because the process of building a pool is so laborious and time-consuming that, not getting what you want, seems so wrong and unfair.

So let me add my 2 cents for the OP and hopefully not rankle too many feathers with what I say -

1. The PB certainly screwed this up; he is, at least, partially at fault.

2. Redoing the ledge, at this juncture in time, is unrealistic IN MY OPINION. You're talking about draining the pool, chipping out the plaster, jackhammering the gunite shell and then redoing rebar and shotcrete. Not to mention that it will all need to be possibly re-permitted and inspected again. That's just unrealistic and there's no way any PB would do that. I don't even think any arbitrator would consider that a viable solution.

3. When this happened at excavation and rebar, the problem was noticed and the job should have been stopped until the PB got back from vacation (why take vacation at the height of build season is beyond me). Yes, that would mean angering subs and throwing the build schedule into question but, by allowing the work to go forward and making payments on schedule up to the point of plaster, there is, at least, implicit consent that the work was acceptable even if not desirable. An arbitrator would recognize that implicit consent even without a sign-off on the contract.

4. There is an offer of money on the table. This means, implicitly again, that the PB accepts some responsibility for what has happened. This would be the point to negotiate through arbitration - maximize the monetary payout. I understand that money can't fix everything that has gone wrong, but, at this point, it's the best option out there unless you're willing to tear up your new pool, yard and life for the next few months.

Again, the above is just my unprofessional opinion and thoughts, others may not share them and may totally disagree with them. I hope this can get resolved to the satisfaction of all parties involved.
 
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Just a question, out of left field and not in relation to the lawyer stuff; "Is there a way to 'correct' the usable area of the tanning ledge?" Maybe some kind of table that could be added to increase the usable surface area?
 
JoyfulNoise said:
I am always saddened by these types of threads because the process of building a pool is so laborious and time-consuming that, not getting what you want, seems so wrong and unfair.

So let me add my 2 cents for the OP and hopefully not rankle too many feathers with what I say -

1. The PB certainly screwed this up; he is, at least, partially at fault.

2. Redoing the ledge, at this juncture in time, is unrealistic IN MY OPINION. You're talking about draining the pool, chipping out the plaster, jackhammering the gunite shell and then redoing rebar and shotcrete. Not to mention that it will all need to be possibly re-permitted and inspected again. That's just unrealistic and there's no way any PB would do that. I don't even think any arbitrator would consider that a viable solution.

3. When this happened at excavation and rebar, the problem was noticed and the job should have been stopped until the PB got back from vacation (why take vacation at the height of build season is beyond me). Yes, that would mean angering subs and throwing the build schedule into question but, by allowing the work to go forward and making payments on schedule up to the point of plaster, there is, at least, implicit consent that the work was acceptable even if not desirable. An arbitrator would recognize that implicit consent even without a sign-off on the contract.

4. There is an offer of money on the table. This means, implicitly again, that the PB accepts some responsibility for what has happened. This would be the point to negotiate through arbitration - maximize the monetary payout. I understand that money can't fix everything that has gone wrong, but, at this point, it's the best option out there unless you're willing to tear up your new pool, yard and life for the next few months.

Again, the above is just my unprofessional opinion and thoughts, others may not share them and may totally disagree with them. I hope this can get resolved to the satisfaction of all parties involved.
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I agree with a lot of the above (particularly that the PB is not the only one at fault here), but I dont necesasrily agree that a fix is unrealistic. If the PB uses his own employeees (doesn't sub it out) he should be able to fix this relatively easily and cheeply. Draining the pool is not complicated. And neither is chipping out the gunite. And the cost of additional REBAR and gunite (and replaster) is not too expensive. It is the labor that is expensive, but if the PB is paying his own people (and not subbing it out), the actual cost shouldn't be too bad. I would give a rough estimate (based solely on my own intuition) of no more than $2,000. On the other hand, if he has to call back subs, it could get expensive. I would estimate as much as $5,000. But he has leverage over his subs and could likely get the one or ones that messed up to come back at very reasonable prices.

My approach would be to sit down with the builder and find out how much this will take to fix. I would also call in a third party to get a cost (which should obviously be more than the builder's cost for the reasons explained above). If the builder states that the cost is $3,000, you can offer him $500 as an incentive to get the job done. From his perspective he is probably wondering why no one contacted him directly (via email or phone) to alert him to the problem when it first arose. On the other hand, you indicated you told his Foreman, and from your perspective that should be sufficient.

Jollyfullnoise is correct that an arbitrator wouldn't make a PB redo all mistakes,for example an entire pool because the depth was say 6 inches short in a particular area. But in this case, an Arbitrator is going to focus on the cost of remedy, which I don't think is so great. And he or she is going to compare that cost to both the total cost of the job (hopefullynot a large ) as well as to the inconvenience of the homeowner, which in this case seems to preclude their enjoyment of the Sunshelf.

In conclusion, you need to get a feel for the cost to fix the problem before one can recommend a course of action. Although I note that I suspect that if you go to arbitration and compel his foreman to come as a witness, the Arbitrator will rule significantly in your favor (not necesasriily the full amount of repair) if he or she believes the Foreman is lying about your prior conversation.

But I think the Sunshelf as is will bother you for years to come, and I would try to get it fixed (after the seaon when yiou are done swimming). The whole job should be done in less than 2 weeks.
 
I agree with Joyful Noise and Grotto Guy. Arbitration is cheap and I wouldn't feel good about this unless it were either fixed or I were appropriately compensated. You might not even make it to arbitration. When the PB realizes you aren't dropping it, he may up his initial $425 offer of compensation.

I realize there is some fault on the part of the owner but they aren't in reach of any contract. The PB didn't build to spec. Period. His square footage is the same argument is BS and won't hold up.


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I am so sorry. That feels lousy. In our last build, they did the spa wrong and the jets were almost like an enema! They had to chip out part of the gunite, but that was before pebble. The sundeck is one of my favorite parts of this pool, so I feel your pain. I hope you can find a solution that will make you feel good, as that is the whole point of the pool, right?
 

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