Switching to SWG - have questions

[dogman]

after following the TFP method for years with few issues, I have decided to make the switch given chlorine pricing and I am finding myself away from the pool for longer periods. I have yet to open the pool for the season but plan on doing so this week. Water temp is hitting 62. I have a number of question:

1 I am thinking the circapool rj-30+ and upgrading to the 45. assume that makes sense. Since our system is not automated and is an older system I do not need to match anything. Do I need to go bigger given I run my pump 24/7?
2. Wiring: our pool backs to woods and is a flooded system with the pool pad sitting below the pool grade by several feet. As such, I run the variable pump 24/7 for the entire pool season. Not on full but strong enough to keep the surface clean. I do not have a timer on the VSP. Not sure whether I need a timer for the SWG or not in this case. I do have a timer running our side cleaner that runs generally 12am to 5am. i hate to print this but the booster pump is original 13 years old and I bought a robot cleaner when I thought it was going out 2 years ago. Still running strong but I could wire into that timer? Thoughts? What if 5 hours is not enough to generate salt needs. The pool is in full sun most of the day. Not sure I will have enough pole space for another timer and the SWG controller. power is 220.
3 location is tight coming out of the heater. I have a 2 way valve splitting the return to a water feature. the main run then splits for the returns and a supply to a slide. Any problem running this to the slide too Or will the chlorinated flow cause streaking etc? The water features have brass fittings. they are 4 little fountains into the pool. Don’t use those too much since not automated. I am thinking a vertical install would be best. Interested on your thoughts where to install without redoing the other plumbing but if need to move those your suggestions. See pics (note pool is still winterized)

4 do I need a check valve on the line from the heater?

5. Any other parts I will need to order when ordering the SWG?
6 I have some minor missing pebbletec that needs to be repaired so there is some exposed gunite From prior posts I have a broken line to one of the four water features that has bulged behind the coping tile my pebbletec is also original to the pool. Any c8ncerns switching to salt with these outstaying repair todos?

thanks as usual for everyone help.

 

[Texas Splash]

Do I need to go bigger given I run my pump 24/7?

Nope. I have the RJ-45 for my 17.8K pool.

Not sure whether I need a timer for the SWG or not in this case.

If you leave the pump set to run 24/7, then no. That's how mine is configured.

location is tight coming out of the heater.

That is a little tight. Might need to do a vertical install unless you get creative with the PVC spacing. Should be no problem for the slide though.

do I need a check valve on the line from the heater?

No

Any other parts I will need to order when ordering the SWG?

Maybe the vertical kit.

Any c8ncerns switching to salt with these outstaying repair todos?

No problem

You can see my RJ-45 install linked in my signature. Good luck!

 

[Bperry]

Only thing I would add is that yes, you can hook the SWCG up to the existing timer if you want to limit the amount of chlorine generation to that time span. You may or may not need to. It’s what I did for my setup because I run my pump 24x7 but only need ~8hours of chlorine generation some parts of the season even with the generator turned way down.

 

[dogman]

Thank you all for the quick responses. Looks like placement will need some creativity. The vertical option needs about 6.5” and I am not sure it is easily there. the side booster comes out of the heater outlet as well. I was thinking lateral but I am concerned about it being stepped on by deer (or me for that matter)
if anyone has any additional suggestions on placement that would be helpful. I prefer to retain the open space between the filter and the black valve. Need the room to get in there to clean the filters etc.

 

[Mdragger88]

Note* You also want the swg & the pump fed from the same power source that way if the pump breaker trips the swg will turn off also.
Your vsp just needs to be set at high enough rpms to engage the flow switch of the swg - usually around 1200-1400 rmps. + whatever you like for skimming. You want it to be 100 rpms or so above the minimum it takes to operate the swg with a clean filter so when your filter gets dirty & flow slows you’re still covered. You can run the swg around the clock at a low percentage or use a timer & run it for less time at a higher percentage- up to you. The net result will be the same fc wise. Many prefer to do the low percentage all the time so the fc stays consistent.

 

[proavia]

Since you are going to have to be creative with the plumbing, consider installing a heater bypass while you are replumbing. A heater bypass will allow running the pump at a lower rpm when the heater is off and the SWG is producing chlorine.

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

It appears there is a check valve between the filter and heater. No idea why you would need a check valve in that location. Additionally, that type of check valve isn't repairable and will need to be cut out when it fails.

The red handled valves will eventually freeze up and/or the handles break off. Consider replumbing at least the return side with Jandy valves instead - since you will already be cutting into the return side plumbing to install the SWG.

 

[dogman]

sorry for the delayed response. I was away. I am thinking to try and plumb without having to "touch" the piping off the heater where my booster pump plumbing attaches. those have not been touched in years and given the age, I really do not want to mess with those. here is my, let me know if this works:

cut out the Jandy valve controlling the fountains.
should be enough room to install the curcupool vertical installation which says I would need 6.5" and I have about 11" or so in that gap. will fine tune the spacing etc
on the upside leg of the vertical installation kit, I would add a "T" to reconnect to the fountains and plumb in a new valve on that line.
flow switch above the T
make the turn and install the cell on the down leg

In the end, the vertical adapter will just need to be a little taller but this would be the least amount of plumbing I think.

interested in your thoughts?

 

[dogman]

RJ 45+ installed yesterday and opened the pool right after the install. have some questions on the water balance. added some initial pool shock and acid last night on the open

Test results today: (water is clear thank you TFP process)

FC 3.5
PH 7.5
TA 70
CH 250
CYA 0 (note I just started adding stabilizer but doing so slowly until I am comfortable nothing growing in the pool)
Salt 1200 (the taylor test results using the regents)
BOR 0 but I had some last year just ran out of test strips
Temp 60

couple of questions on target goals since the TFP targets differ from the RJ45+ manual - I am planning to follow TFP but wanted to confirm since differs from the manual

FC: RJ45+ booklet says to maintain FC at 1-3. TFP is 4-6 (but CYA is higher for TFP which explains the difference)
TA: RJ45+ booklet says 80-120 TFP says 60-80
CYA 30-50 (and the manual says should not typically be kept above 50) and TFP says 70-80 (historically pre salt I maintained around 40
CH 200-400 and TFP is 350

Lastly, I will not be around this coming weekend. should I wait to turn on the RJ45 to generate until I get back or is there enough time between now and thursday to make sure all is ok? I need to raise the CYA and still add the salt and then manage the readings to find the proper setting. thoughts?

also, since I just opened the pool, how long to wait before increasing the CYA. Given the water temp is only 60 and another frost/freeze tonight with several days of cooler weather. will run another overnight test but last night I had no FC loss from the projected level when I added the a gallon of pool shock.

thanks

 

[Texas Splash]

Stick with TFP numbers. In fact, some Circupool manuals contradict themselves with the old ranges, while newer recommendations encourage a CYA of 60 or more like TFP does. The TFP numbers are best.

Make sure the salt has had at least 24 hrs to fully dissolve and acclimate in the water before turning on the SWG. Until then, keep the FC from falling below 3 ppm. Yes, turn on the SWG before you leave.

I would be sure you have a CYA of at least 5o now, then monitor again before you leave. You can wait until you return to increase it a bit more (i.e. 70), but you need a healthy CYA to protect the FC generated by the cell.

 

[Texas Splash]

Just for giggles, checkout the recommended CYA level on Page 10 of this link. You'll see various places online that contradict themselves. TFP is your best source for ideal levels and takes into account multiple factors for each parameter.

https://www.circupool.com/assets/doc/CircuPool-RJ-Manual.pdf

 

[Newdude]

Raise the CYA to 30. If you need to SLAM, that's where you want to be. Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to prove nothing is growing and then you can raise it to 70 without worry.

Until you have some CYA going, the FC may be wiped out in an hour or two. So pay attention to make sure you're not spending half the day at 0.

 

[dogman]

will do. one last question,

Will the SWG produce anything given my water temp is still only 60? thought I read somewhere it needs to be at least 65 or the 45+ will not generate?

again, thanks everyone and looking forward to not staining any more shorts from the nightly pool shock/bleach additions.

 

[Newdude]

Will the SWG produce anything given my water temp is still only 60? thought I read somewhere it needs to be at least 65 or the 45+ will not generate?

Mine works well below when it's supposed to shut off. YMMV. It's alot like the salt reading. Even when it's wrong, it has the final say and it won't listen to you.

 

[Bperry]

Mine RJ works until around 55F.

 

[dogman]

thought I would provide an update and make sure I am heading in the correct direction.

I turned on the SWG yesterday morning at 60% with the following test results:

FC 3.5
PH 7.6
TA 70
CH 275
CYA 25
Salt 3500 (SWG at 60%)
BOR 30
CSI -.48

Last night after a full sunny day: ( note I have been slowly adding stabilizer and Calcium and borax to manage PH ) left SWG at 60%

FC 4.5
PH 7.5
TA 70
CH 300
CYA 35
Salt 3200
CSI -.53

This morning I lowered the SWG to 40% based on the below numbers:

FC 8.5
PH 7.6
TA 80
CH 325
CYA 40
salt 3200
csi -.36

For some reason I was expecting the FC to be much higher since I was at 60% on the SWG and run my pumps 24/7. maybe it takes another 24 hours since it is not a sprint. I lowered the SWG to 40% with a goal to maintain at least 6 ppm FC as I raise the CYA to 50 goal of getting CYA to 70. since I run my pump 24/7 I am thinking I will land around 20% or so on the SWG. also, pool math says to increase my salt to maintain 3500. I assume it is lower since my SWG is at 60% and a high FC. as FC settles and my SWG % goes down, wouldn't my Salt go back up a little and I should hold on any additions until I have a comfortable % setting?

thanks again for the help and support.

 

[Texas Splash]

My RJ-45 is currently at 20%, but I will probably increase it in the heat of summer. Don't worry about the fact that the SWG didn't produce a large overnight spike in FC as you anticipated. They don't always work that way. You're at a good strong number now though, and the higher CYA should help keep it where you want it.

 

[Jimrahbe]

as FC settles and my SWG % goes down, wouldn't my Salt go back up a little

D-man,

Not really, the cell does not consume the salt, it just uses it and spits it back out..

As long as the salt level is between the min and max for your cell, there is no need to add more salt. You can if you want, but for me, if the actual salt level is much higher than 3200, then I can start to taste it.

Also, there is the actual salt level, which you test with a salt test kit, like the Taylor K-1766, and the salt level the cell reports, which is often not close to the actual salt level.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Mdragger88]

borax to manage PH

While borates help buffer ph rise, Borax raises ph & ta which then needs to be counteracted with acid.
It is much simpler to first get Ta where you want it (around 60), this helps buffer ph rise too, then simply add the amount of granular boric acid poolmath calls for, which is much more ph neutral.

Borates in pool - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com