Suction-Side Pool Cleaners

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I can’t wait until my Rebel dies and I can justify a Robot cleaner. It keeps limping along on $20 parts so I just can’t justify the expense.

I’d highly recommend looking at making the jump to a properly selected robot, suction side sucks.
 
We love our new version rebel, works great, pool is super clean, we added an in-line leaf canister by hayward (as was suggested here on TFP) and there is barely a leaf in site.
 
SoCalTFP said:
I can’t wait until my Rebel dies and I can justify a Robot cleaner. It keeps limping along on $20 parts so I just can’t justify the expense.

I’d highly recommend looking at making the jump to a properly selected robot, suction side sucks.
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Wait until your robot’s motor dies in 3-5 years just outside the warranty period. You’ll just love paying the hefty $500 price for it. They are not rebuildable or repairable. You buy the entire module at nearly half the price of a new cleaner. So that means the economically smart choice is buying a new cleaner every 3-5 years at $1000 a clip.

I much prefer suction cleaners that can be rebuilt for what amounts to a few trips to Starbucks as opposed to a brand new iPhone 14 …
 
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SoCalTFP said:
I can’t wait until my Rebel dies and I can justify a Robot cleaner. It keeps limping along on $20 parts so I just can’t justify the expense.

I’d highly recommend looking at making the jump to a properly selected robot, suction side sucks.
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It's fairer to say that different types of cleaners fit different pools (and their owners) differently. There are many factors, all of which should be considered. Suction-side cleaners are superior for some (like me), my pool is perfectly clean, all the time, for a minimum expense (just a partial list of what I like about them). Others think the advantages of a robot are worth the extra cost (purchase and maintenance).

We'll look forward to your take once you've owned a robot for a while.

Meanwhile, if you have specific problems with your suction-side cleaner, perhaps you can share what those are, in a new thread. Maybe we can help you improve its performance.
 
Dirk said:
It's fairer to say that different types of cleaners fit different pools (and their owners) differently. There are many factors, all of which should be considered. Suction-side cleaners are superior for some (like me), my pool is perfectly clean, all the time, for a minimum expense (just a partial list of what I like about them). Others think the advantages of a robot are worth the extra cost (purchase and maintenance).

We'll look forward to your take once you've owned a robot for a while.

Meanwhile, if you have specific problems with your suction-side cleaner, perhaps you can share what those are, in a new thread. Maybe we can help you improve its performance.
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I feel like a suction side cleaner is like one of those old bump style Roomba vacuums. It randomly spins around my pool and hopefully vacuums everything up on accident.

Unless I’m mistaken the robots are smarter, brush, and will climb walls and clean the waterline.

A suction side has to be what $500 today? Why on earth would anyone choose not to spend a few hundred bucks more and get technology that was made less than 10 years ago 🤷

The only problem with my Rebel is every time I think it’s dead and I get to upgrade a $20 part fixes it. I guess low maintenance is a plus, but no way would I fork over for a new one with todays technology.
 
SoCalTFP said:
Unless I’m mistaken the robots are smarter, brush, and will climb walls and clean the waterline.

A suction side has to be what $500 today? Why on earth would anyone choose not to spend a few hundred bucks more and get technology that was made less than 10 years ago 🤷
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No, yes, maybe …

Robots execute a random walk pattern with thrusted turns. The number of CW/CCW turns is equivalent to reduce cord tangle. They are not “smart” in any sense of the word. They can sense when they are at the waterline or when they climb up a wall. That’s it. They are dumb tech with extra features.

Yes a robot can climb a wall but so can my suction cleaner if I let it. A wall brush is more effective.

They will clean the water line tile but that’s mainly sucking up debris. Their scrubbing action will in no way mitigate scale build up.

Suction cleaners generally cost less than $500. Robots, for ones with any features and good brushes, start at $1000. You’re paying twice the amount of money for not much more than what a suction cleaner does.

As @Dirk so eloquently posted - your pool, your money, your choice.

… just don’t be bamboozled by all the marketing hype and salivating fan-boy-esque drooling that goes on around here for robots …
 
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Thanks to both of you. Leafs are not a concern, as pool is completely screened in excellent condition. I updated my avatar. My plan was to adjust the suction via setting pump speed when programming the cleaner circuit. So counting rotations should work out.
 
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I received the Rebel Head today. I found the instructions on the Pentair site. It says that
  1. Count the number of full rotations made by the wheel over a period of one minute. The number of rotations will give you the revolutions per minute; or RPM’s. An easy way to be sure you are counting full rotations is by counting the number of times the wheel hump passes by the swivel assembly.
  2. For proper performance, the Rebel cleaner operates between 11-13 RPM.
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So I will be getting that done this weekend. For those of you with a rebel, can you provide the weight of the hose weight that is used, so I can compare it to the one from the Barracuda G3?
The instructions say to put the regulator in the skimmer suction even if using a vacuum cleaner suction port. That seems wrong. The two things are not connected at all. I assume this is for pools to reduce suction on the cleaner port when using a single-speed pump and there is no way to adjust valves/speed to get it right. I plan on setting the pump speed to clean and skim at the same time. My two new Pentair valve actuators are expected to arrive tomorrow. This weekend will be busy.

adding: I see the hose float (360300) at epoolsupply for 17.95 It looks larger than the Barracuda one. Oops, out of stock.
 
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CA92807 said:
The Rebel V2 manual has been revised:

For proper performance, the Rebel® 2 cleaner operates between 16-18 RPM.
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Thanks. I put it in this morning and tuned the pump speed to get 13 RPM. And it just keeps hitting a wall, (our walls are pretty vertical, not soup bowl walls), backs up to the side a foot, and then goes and hits the wall again. Repeat. Increasing suction now and will check it after I finish cutting the lawn. The weight is coming today from poolzoom so maybe that will help. The one from the barracuda is likely lighter.
 

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ride525 said:
Just curious why The Pool Cleaner (now under the Hayward name) has not been recommended in this thread. I've had two over the years, and mainly based on recommendations from Trouble Free Pool. The PoolCleaner™ by Poolvergnuegen | Hayward Residential and Commercial Pool Products
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Many users have complained that The Pool Cleaner quality and parts went downhill once Hayward acquired it from PoolVernugen. Hayward’s focus is their Navigator suction cleaner, which is by far one of the most popular out there, and they only acquired PoolVernugen so they could have a “wheeled” cleaner. It’s sort of become the “red headed step child” of their product line up - They tolerate it being around but they’d rather not support it too much.
 
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I received the Rebel hose float and the Jandy actuator today from poolzoom. I immediately attached the hose float to the Rebel where indicated ( 8" up onto first full hose segment. What a difference! It is moving quite well, climbing walls a decent amount, and getting the pool clean. Total cost was under $300: $250 shipped for head (epoolsupply on eBay was $50 less than their site or Amazon), plus the leader hose and hose float. No more thump-thump-thump of the old G3! Only bad thing is I have to run my IntelliFlo pump at 2700 PPM (1,000W) to get the suction (skimmer and main drain closed) for the cleaner to get proper wheel RPMs. I can get away with just running it a few hours for a few days of the week, so that should be ok. I'll get another actuator for the skimmer valve so I can automate the closing of the skimmer for the cleaner circuit. poolEq - 1.png
 
The Rebel V2 manual shows the float mounted 23" above the top of the cleaner. You can get a download here:


A different format version:


I replaced my 9-year old 4-wheel Poolverguegen with the Reble V2 last week and am very pleased. The old cleaner was showing its age and needed a rebuild, so the V2 at $250 was a no-brainer. I just replaced the original hoses this season, so I used them along with the float. It's climbing the walls and the snap open top cover make debris removal easy, a real improvement.

I run a 1-hour clean cycle every day and the pool always looks great.
 
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CA92807 said:
The Rebel V2 manual shows the float mounted 23" above the top of the cleaner. You can get a download here:


A different format version:


I replaced my 9-year old 4-wheel Poolverguegen with the Reble V2 last week and am very pleased. The old cleaner was showing its age and needed a rebuild, so the V2 at $250 was a no-brainer. I just replaced the original hoses this season, so I used them along with the float. It's climbing the walls and the snap open top cover make debris removal easy, a real improvement.

I run a 1-hour clean cycle every day and the pool always looks great.
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So 23” instead of 20”. I’ll move it up a bit. A few times on Sunday it climbed the wall and went over the water edge, sucking in air and causing pump to lose prime. I lowered the pump speed and that seems to have worked. My current plan is to run the cleaner with the spillway circuit so it gets used a couple hours a day.

And thanks for the V2 manual link. Buying just the head meant no paper manual. My link was to the original.
 
CFlaPool said:
So 23” instead of 20”. I’ll move it up a bit. A few times on Sunday it climbed the wall and went over the water edge, sucking in air and causing pump to lose prime. I lowered the pump speed and that seems to have worked. My current plan is to run the cleaner with the spillway circuit so it gets used a couple hours a day.

And thanks for the V2 manual link. Buying just the head meant no paper manual. My link was to the original.
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I had a difficult time getting the float onto the hose. Getting it off seems more difficult. I either leave bit at the current position or risk tearing the hose. I have spare hose sections.
 
Only trouble I am having with the Rebel V2 is that it loves to stay in the deep (7’) end. It will venture up to the 3’ shallow end, but not hang around awhile. Is the slope from 7’ up to 3’ depth a problem? It’s getting enough power, as it climbs the walls and gets to the top but does not rise above the waterline and suck air. That has happened, so I am running it now at 2500 rpm fully dedicated to the rebel. There is one spot in shallow end where dirt is accumulating, equidistant from the two pool returns on that end. I was ab,e to move the float up to proper height; I had to hold it underwater to get it off and on.
 
I know my suction cleaner will slow down a lot on slopes. So it tends to stay in the deep end longer because the gearing that turns it kicks in before or makes it all the way up. It does eventually get there so it’s just a matter of balancing the speed versus the likelihood of it climbing out of the pool. My cleaner will not climb all the way up the wall even at higher speeds which is a good thing. You might need to increase the suction a bit more. Also, I have an extra length of hose so that there is no tension from the long hose segments on the shorter leader hose when the cleaner is at its furthest reach. You might experiment with an extra hose length to see if that helps. You also add floats or weights to the hose segments so that you get the right amount of hose in the water as there is on top of the water.

Also know that temperature changes in the water will affect the flexibility of the hose segments and so performance will change in cooler months versus warmer ones.
 
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