Suction side leak driving me insane! Please help

Jump to latest Follow Reply
S

Sbradley0911

Member
Jun 17, 2023
11
Pa
So I'll start with this, my parents bought this house when I was 8 yrs old and my dad worked for a pool company previously and at the time of purchase. I learned the ins and outs of pool care, troubleshooting, opening and closing pools. I even helped my dad with side jobs when I was younger. Since then I've purchased my parents house and have always taken care of the pool.

I recently just upgraded from a hayward superpump 1.5hp to a variable speed. I also scoped my skimmer line and discovered a few holes from a groundhog that made a home under the concrete that surrounds the pool. So I replaced my skimmer line, installed a new jandy gray valve that diverts between the skimmer and main drain(main drain has been an issue since my parents bought the house) and installed the variable speed.

The problem I'm having is I can not get the pump to stay fully primed. So far I've open up the jandy found a partially crushed gasket, replaced with a whole new jandy head assembly. Checked every connection more than 3 or 4 times with all the usual methods garden hose, shaving cream and I've even went over every glue joint individually and added glue then turned on the pump so if there was a tiny pin hole the glue could be sucks in and seal the leak. Lid o-ring is magic lubed well, inlet oring is lubed and threading is teflon taped with liquid teflon on top of that. Drain plugs on the pump are tefloned and orings are lubed. Threaded coupling on the bottom of the skimmer is tefloned and liquid tefloned.

No matter what I do I can not get this thing to stay primed. I even got a replacement variable speed pump thinking something was defective with the pump. Another weird thing that I can't figure out is that I can prime the pump fully with no air if I set the multiport to waste. It will not prime on recirculate or rinse or filter. How can it prime to waste when it's pulling from the same skimmer line, the only thing that changes is where I'm sending the water too. So how is that making a difference when I prime but I can't get a full prime set to filter?

Sorry for the long winded post but I wanted to give as much info as I could even though I'm sure I forgot something. Thanks in advance for any help
 
Sbradley0911 said:
So I'll start with this, my parents bought this house when I was 8 yrs old and my dad worked for a pool company previously and at the time of purchase. I learned the ins and outs of pool care, troubleshooting, opening and closing pools. I even helped my dad with side jobs when I was younger. Since then I've purchased my parents house and have always taken care of the pool.

I recently just upgraded from a hayward superpump 1.5hp to a variable speed. I also scoped my skimmer line and discovered a few holes from a groundhog that made a home under the concrete that surrounds the pool. So I replaced my skimmer line, installed a new jandy gray valve that diverts between the skimmer and main drain(main drain has been an issue since my parents bought the house) and installed the variable speed.

The problem I'm having is I can not get the pump to stay fully primed. So far I've open up the jandy found a partially crushed gasket, replaced with a whole new jandy head assembly. Checked every connection more than 3 or 4 times with all the usual methods garden hose, shaving cream and I've even went over every glue joint individually and added glue then turned on the pump so if there was a tiny pin hole the glue could be sucks in and seal the leak. Lid o-ring is magic lubed well, inlet oring is lubed and threading is teflon taped with liquid teflon on top of that. Drain plugs on the pump are tefloned and orings are lubed. Threaded coupling on the bottom of the skimmer is tefloned and liquid tefloned.

No matter what I do I can not get this thing to stay primed. I even got a replacement variable speed pump thinking something was defective with the pump. Another weird thing that I can't figure out is that I can prime the pump fully with no air if I set the multiport to waste. It will not prime on recirculate or rinse or filter. How can it prime to waste when it's pulling from the same skimmer line, the only thing that changes is where I'm sending the water too. So how is that making a difference when I prime but I can't get a full prime set to filter?

Sorry for the long winded post but I wanted to give as much info as I could even though I'm sure I forgot something. Thanks in advance for any help
Click to expand...
Running in waste is essentially pushing water through an open line, very little restriction, so the pump can evacuate all the air from the pot.
In either of the other positions there is restriction that slows the water down to the point it may not evacuate all the air, doesn't mean it isn't primed. A VSP will often look like there is air in the pot at lower speeds, mine has for decades. Its not sucking air.

What pump? What filter? When was the filter last cleaned?
 
  • Like
Reactions: JoyfulNoise
The pool was backwashed about a week ago before I put the new pump in. The water level drops to the high of the basket at lower and mid rpms and the pump will re-prime at full rpm between every schedule that I've set up and it doesn't evacuate the air during those prime cycles between the schedules.
Example: 12a-6a 1200 rpm
3 min prime
6a-12p 1800 rpm
3 min prime
And so on



Hayward de4820 (new grids new manifold)
Jacuzzi jvs165s
 
If I don't prime to waste when I get up in the AM and before I go to bed at night the water level will drop lower than the height of the basket, don't know how low it'll drop but I don't plan waiting to find out lol
 
Sbradley0911 said:
If I don't prime to waste when I get up in the AM and before I go to bed at night the water level will drop lower than the height of the basket, don't know how low it'll drop but I don't plan waiting to find out lol
Click to expand...
If its like mine (which is a Hayward 2.7) the water will drop below the inlet pipe every evening. Your pump is a rebranded Hayward 1.65 TriStar, same pump except for the motor and impeller. Tomorrow, open the pump, allow the water to settle in it, probably half way down the pot if it hasn't already. Put the lid on and start it. Not likely you will ever find the pot completely full after it being off overnight.

Unless there is a hole somewhere in the suction plumbing, the pump will start with a sudden acceleration to get the volume of water in it to be sucked out (creating a vacuum), slow down a bit to priming speed, and the pump will start pulling water. Can take a minute or two. VSPs don't act like old single-speed pumps. For some reason Hayward EcoStar/TriStar pumps all act that way and almost never have I seen a full pot on lower speeds or when I open mine to clean the basket. Mine does that, but there is seldom any air in the filter, even at the lower speeds. You just get used to the way it operates. Thirteen years + on mine.
 
I'm running mine 24-7 low speed overnight and gradually higher during the day. I primed to waste a 8pm tonight after getting the brand new pump and there is currently a decent size air bubble while it's been running at 2300 rpm. I feel like this isn't normal?
 

Attachments

  • 16870543830473489327405995569985.jpg
    16870543830473489327405995569985.jpg
    358.4 KB · Views: 9
Sbradley0911 said:
I'm running mine 24-7 low speed overnight and gradually higher during the day. I primed to waste a 8pm tonight after getting the brand new pump and there is currently a decent size air bubble while it's been running at 2300 rpm. I feel like this isn't normal?
Click to expand...
Release all the air from your filter. Come back in 10 minutes and try again. A lot of air? Suction leak. Not a lot of air? No suction leak. May just be the nature of your system. Everything changes when a new piece of equipment is added or changed.
Just noticed you said you used sealant on the union fittings. That should not be done and can prevent the union from tightening enough to get the O rings to seal.
 
Really? I've always been told and have seen that every gasket or oring needs to have lube on them. I'm pretty sure it says in the manual to apply lube to the suction side and pressure side gaskets on the pump..
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Sbradley0911 said:
Really? I've always been told and have seen that every gasket or oring needs to have lube on them. I'm pretty sure it says in the manual to apply lube to the suction side and pressure side gaskets on the pump..
Click to expand...
Lube the union O rings, yes. Seal the union threads, no. Unions don't seal at the threads, they do so by compressing the O ring.
From your post. "inlet oring is lubed and threading is teflon taped with liquid teflon on top of that." Tape and thread sealant on the union threads can cause a problem. Technically, in-ground pool pumps are considered "self-priming" and can (but don't do it) move water even if there is none added to the pot. Did it once on a new pump install and was amazed that it worked, tried a second time on another job and burned the seal. I used to experiment a lot with equipment. A link to a good discussion of pump priming is below.

If your pump is consistently moving water it is "primed." You'll hear and see it on start-up. Having a void in the hair and lint pot while water is moving does not indicate a pump that hasn't "primed." It also is not necessarily an indication of a suction leak unless air can continuously be released from the filter. That is the key in determining if you have a suction leak. A suction leak can be below ground and the pool never lose a drop of water. Hopefully, that is not the case with your pool.

www.theprocesspiping.com

Introduction to Priming in Pumps - The Process Piping

Pump Priming is the process of removing air from the pump and suction line. In this process the pump is been filled with the liquid being pumped and this liquid forces all the air, gas, or vapor contained in the passage ways of pump to escape out.
www.theprocesspiping.com
 
@1poolman1 thanks again for your input and help. I primed the pump to the point of no air in the basket when I got up and have been running at 3000rpm all day. The air bubble has gotten down to just hitting the clear portion of the lid. We'll see if it gets any lower. As far as your last post about the teflon and liquid teflon on the pump inlet union, can that actual cause the gasket to not compress fully and correctly? Or more importantly can it be a hindrance or is it just not necessary?
 
Sbradley0911 said:
@1poolman1 thanks again for your input and help. I primed the pump to the point of no air in the basket when I got up and have been running at 3000rpm all day. The air bubble has gotten down to just hitting the clear portion of the lid. We'll see if it gets any lower. As far as your last post about the teflon and liquid teflon on the pump inlet union, can that actual cause the gasket to not compress fully and correctly? Or more importantly can it be a hindrance or is it just not necessary?
Click to expand...
If it interferes with the union nut being able to be tightened enough to compress the O ring, then yes it can be a hindrance. Also, it adds pressure to the nut itself and can cause it to split, and that means getting a new set of pump unions as they can't be fixed and Hayward (Jacuzzi), like most manufacturers, uses proprietary threads on their pumps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply