Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

[Schnozz]

1300 - FC 26.0 ppm..Added 50 oz. 12% LC. CC - 2.0 (4 drops 10 ml test sample)
1600 - FC 31.5 ppm..Nothing Added
1700 - FC 29.5 ppm..Nothing Added
1900 - FC 28.0 ppm..Added 18 oz. 12% LC...CC - 3.0 (6 drops 10 ml test sample)

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!

 

[DKT113]

Could any reagents have gotten too hot, aged? And the result of that is funky numbers? Just thinking out loud and by fingertip as I read this thread?
I see you started this pool in 2015, I would think that the reagents are fine, but you do live in California and I know it can get hot there.

Now I know this season, after 3 seasons my sand was fouled. Which many will think it wasn't but I had horrible tree* droppings inside of that turned to sludge.

If you have tried everything else but have not deep cleaned, I think at this point I would, if for nothing else just to check that duty off the list and for sanity.
8400 gallons in California, you could be doing a bit of baking in that tank. Be careful with the hose so you do not disturb your laterals, but get a hose in there and flush everything out.

Are you sure of your bleach strength? Did you check the dates on the bottles and do you store your bottles in a cool shady spot?

The wand that you attached to sweep, I know mine will hold a bit of water in it so I make sure to drain it over top of the water and if I set it down one end is always elevated so anything that didn't slide out does while it is at rest.

Can't really think of anything else right now, just finished a marathon yard session that started at 7 this morning and I am too old for that anymore

Just trying to offer up something that helps. Stay the course you are close, check dates on those bleach bottles and deep clean the filter. And try not to lose your mind in the process

 

[Schnozz]

DKT113....

My regeants are kept in a plastic tool box in the garage. Pretty consist at temperatures. I've purchased several bottles of most of the regeants. Use by dates are all late 2016/2017

I will without question, deep clean my sand filter. The experience you had with your own sand filter is what I'm looking for to get me through this. More reason to do what I'm supposed to!! After reading your post, I watched the utube video laying it all out.

Chlorine is from a pool store, 12%, dates have been good so far, unlike Home Depot....I've even checked the strength by testing about 10 minutes after adding to see how much the FC changes. Seems ok.

I always just leave the brush wand resting on the side of the pool, horizontally. Never even considered the stagnant water resting in the pole. From now on, I will make sure the pole is empty and store it so it can drain properly. That's very clever. Nice thinking out of the box. My wife just related a story to me about sippy cups for kids with built in straws. Because the straws could not be removed, some liquid stayed in and around the straw. Over time a black type mold developed, even after cleaning. Huge recall. Sounds familiar.....

I can relate..12 hour days doing anything, even recreation, poops me out. I'm too old as well......

Knowing that other members from TFP, individuals with nothing to gain, only wanting to share their knowledge, increase my knowledge and enhance my own pool owning experience, will keep me sane.

Thanks for for taking the time after your long day to look over my long winded rants.... Bob ( aka Schnozz)

 

[pooldv]

That is a bit of a conundrum. Hopefully, cleaning the sand filter will do some good. No need to get a bigger pump. Your pump and filter are clearly doing a good job of keeping your pool clean. It looks great. I would only do the elevated FC level for a day or two and then go back to shock level of 12 for CYA OF 30.

 

[DKT113]

Put the plugs in the pool when you deep clean so you don't lose water. I know I have one that fits in my skimmer and ones for my returns.

It may take a wee bit of time for stuff to come bubbling out if by chance you do have debris in there and I noticed in mine too ~ I have only done it this season so it was a learning experience ... but some areas produced clean waters ~ others were the motherload of funk and foul! So with that you need to get that hose in there poking all around, but being mindful of the laterals. I actual sunk spa tubing in and with that I could feel the location of the lateral & they do sit in there at least in mine as if I had hand-drawn a sun as a child with the rays coming off of it ~ straight lines in a pattern. So I would sink the tubing feel for the lateral adjust left or right depending on what area I was trying to reach and then I put my hose in through the hole in the spa tubing. When I initially started... pushing that hose down in my end was catching the laterals and that's dangerous territory. The spa hose just eased my mind some ~ if you don't have any handy ~ nothing to fret, try to get a feel for how yours lay in the bottom of that tank and be mindful of the hose end catching them in their spots ~ you'll be fine I can tell you are a thorough kind of Man.

There's a reason behind what is happening ~ its just getting to the "core" to get it figured out. You seem to have covered everything and when you deep clean that filter, that knocks that off the list. Maybe between now and then a light will go on for someone and they will think of something. Please don't give up yet ~ it will get figured out, just going to take some additional doing.

I looked up your pool for a picture of it ~ now the picture I saw and this could be the wrong one, but it shows the pool vinyl liner and it has poling through a top pocket ~ have you flushed those out, could something funky be in those pockets? There's a gap and it appears water could collect in there, collect and drip into the pool. You could essentially have 72' of vinyl pocketing with grody stuff in there. Might be something to check and flush ~ grasping at straws, but something is in there and it's being tricky so have to out-trick the trickster!

I am off to sleep but will ponder, I am sure others are too ~ between you and everyone helping ~ it's surely just a matter of a little more time.
Holy Patience though, I have to give it to you in that department ~ Super Trooper!

Sleep well ~ top up before you do though ~ never let them see you sweat!

 

[pooldv]

 

[Schnozz]

When I put the pool to bed last night at 2100, FC was 30.5 and CC had risen to 4.0 (8 drops in 10 ml sample).
This morning before sunrise, about 0630, FC was 30 and CC was about 4.0 again.
Do I understand correctly that CC is the by product of spent FC?
Could the extremely high FC, 30 ppm, be giving me a false CC?
Ive been at this level of FC since Wedneday evening. Advice above says only a day or two of FC above recommend slam levels. I've gone way past that.
Am I ready to let my FC drop naturally to a slam level 12 to 15 for my CYA of 30?

 

[Texas Splash]

Hello again Bob. Very strange about yoru FC holding but CC climbing. You've been at this for a long time, and I agree with pooldv that it's time to let the FC come down to yoru normal SLAM level. SO if your CYA is still at the 30 mark, let your FC come back to 12. I found THIS THREAD interesting and wondered if it might apply to you in some ways.

Combined chlorine is an intermediate breakdown product created in the process of sanitizing the pool. CC causes the "chlorine" smell many people associate with chlorine pools. If CC is above 0.5, you should SLAM your pool. CC indicates that there is something in the water that the FC is in the process of breaking down. In an outdoor pool, CC will normally stay at or near zero as long as you maintain an appropriate FC level and the pool gets some direct sunlight.

Potassium monopersulfate (a common non-chlorine shock) will show up on FAS-DPD chlorine tests as CC. There is a special reagent you can get to neutralize the potassium monopersulfate so you can get a true CC reading.

 

[DKT113]

Potassium monopersulfate (a common non-chlorine shock) will show up on FAS-DPD chlorine tests as CC. There is a special reagent you can get to neutralize the potassium monopersulfate so you can get a true CC reading.

^^That was a Great Find!^^

Definitely worth digging into that a bit deeper.

 

[Schnozz]

Just made an interesting discovery....
FC is dropping slowly from 30 at 0630 to 27.5 at 0930......good
CC is dropping slowly from 4.0 at 0630 to 3.5 at 0930.......good
I checked my CYA again this morning to verify. After 3 complete tests and 2 sets of eyes, my CYA dropped from a hard 30 yesterday morning to much less than 30 today. No Backwashing/vacuuming to waste/adding water in 24 hours.....not good
The black dot was still visible when I filled the vial to the top, much less than 30. Is there a way to adjust the CYA test to get a lower reading than 30?

 

[Texas Splash]

Is there a way to adjust the CYA test to get a lower reading than 30?

Not really. Best thing to do when you know you're low is just add enough stabilizer to raise your level by 10 ppm. That way you know you're adding a little, but not so much that you'll go too high. Re-check CYA about 2 days later to see how it worked-out.

 

[Schnozz]

It's odd that it dropped though, no?

Thanks for the info on Potassium Monopersulfate. Fortunately there aren't any foreign (read pool store) chemicals in my pool. Stabilizer, liquid chlorine and muratic acid. Au-natural. Except for a puck or two while on vacation

Reading about potassium monopersulfate, and topics like that, helps us to appreciate how intricate and sometimes complicated pool maintenance can appear. But the experts at TFP remind us that we can do it if we stick to the program.

I'll admit, Im a bit frazzled with my current situation, but everyone's reassuring words will keep me working the program and stop me from trying to find some magic potion to fix it..stabilizer, liquid chlorine, and muratic acid is my mantra for now..
As a matter of record, I wouldn't be in this mess at all if I had been paying closer attention back in April.

So I'm going to add a bit of stabilizer to get me back to about 30-40. I'm going to let my FC drop to proper SLAM level for a CYA of 40. I'm going to wait it out, learn what I can and enjoy my pool.

Ill continue to post my results. Everyone, keep sending whatever you think may help. Many have and I have implemented all the suggestions sent my way....thanks again for the encouragement and suggestions....

 

[yeggim]

I
Ill continue to post my results. Everyone, keep sending whatever you think may help. Many have and I have implemented all the suggestions sent my way....thanks again for the encouragement and suggestions....

The CC test will turn pink again after sitting.There have been a few times when folks completed the CC test, let the sample sit and thought they had more CC than what was originally tested.

 

[pooldv]

CYA drops a few ppm per month normally. With some extra backwashing it could be a little more. And I wouldn't be surprised if the elevated FC level didn't increase the CYA drop a bit too.

 

[Schnozz]

yeggim.....Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look at every aspect. I'll do the FC and CC in quicker succession then dump the sample so as not to alarm myself as it turns pink again. If I understand, when the sample goes clear, I'm finished. No more drops of regeants. We're not supposed to wait to see if it changes back to pink and add more regeants.

pooldv.....I wasn't aware CYA would drop normally. I thought only water loss affected CYA..More great information. I don't have any stabilizer on hand, but I have a couple of 3" pucks left over from my last vacation. Can I use a couple of them until I can make it to the store? I did a little research and if I understand correctly chemgeek stated that for each 10 ppm the FC rises when using tabs, CYA will go up 6 ppm. Another post said his math indicates a 2 ppm rise in CYA for every 3" tab.

Also, just finished the deep cleaning of my Intex sand filter as suggested by dkt113, pooldv, and Texas splash. And you guys were right. I backwash and rinse when my pressure rises, but the water that came out while I deep cleaning was nasty looking. Dark charcoal gray to black. Eeewww. Of course, I had a little problem. I couldn't get the 6-way valve off the down-tube. So when I tried to pull it off, the down-tube along with the laterals came to the top of the sand. From there I kinda had to rock the 6-way back and forth to get it off the down-tube. Then, I couldn't get the down-tube and laterals back down to the bottom of the filter. So, I ended up having to take out all the sand and replacing it with fresh sand I had left over....... after I had deep cleaned it. Yay Intex.....anyways, it's done and we're back in business...

FC down to 19.5 from 30 at 0630. Shooting for about 14 and a CYA of 35
CC down to between 2 & 3 from just over 4 last night about 2100...

Till next time, thanks for the advice....

 

[pooldv]

Yes, definitely ok to raise CYA with a trichlor puck. They come in different weights so that is probably why the different numbers. At the bottom of poolmath is a tool called Effects of Adding Chems. Enter the gallons in pool at the top, then enter the weight 6, 8, 9 oz and select trichlor and it will tell you what it will add to the pool.

 

[Schnozz]

Excellent. Thanks

 

[DKT113]

Hey you may see magic happen now that that filter is clean ~ there could have been all kinds of funk in there.

If you have done the filter and there is nothing physically in the pool, the only thing left would be changing out all of the hoses and the connections. There just is nothing else left after that.

I would keep on trucking as you are right now though just to see what the numbers say now that you have cleaned that tank.

Today's actions could have been the trick ~ I am so hoping for you that is it!

 

[Schnozz]

Sooooo, one 8 oz tab of Tri-chlor will raise my FC by 6.5 and my CYA by 4....clear enough.

Didnt even see that feature on the calculator. I know I've said that I've read everything again and again.
Apparently there's reading and then there's REALLY READING......:study:

 

[pooldv]

Right! I had to read that stuff 30 or 40 times to get it all. And there was a page on testing that someone referenced the other day that I had never seen before. And I really thought that after all these years that I had seen every page in TFP. Nope!