Starting the process in North Phoenix **Updated Pics 8/22**

[AZCheesehead]

Hello, first time poster long time reader. I am going through the process of obtaining quotes for a new in ground pool here is north Phoenix. So far I have had two builders to the house, Rondo and California pools. Next week we will have Presidential out.

We are looking for a “play pool” possibly 4-5-4 depths with an attached spa with BBQ island and wood burning fire pit.

Rondo: PM Jo came out to the house. Nice guy gave a lot of suggestions and easy to work with. He pushed the in-floor GV 4 heads by A&A manufacturing, plus the good old QuikPure 3 ozone oxidation system. I am not too crazy about the ozone thing as I had a similar device in my last pool. He did a paper sketch of what he was thinking and would have a better plan by the end of the week. We have an appointment at their office on Friday so we will see what he comes up with.

California: PM is really easy going and easy to work with. He was not in any hurry and answered all of our questions. He was against in-floor (which I have read on this forum many don’t like them). But they have their own system they would install where the water flows downward on the sides of the pool for circulation.

Unique: PM was one of the worst to work with. Didn't respond to emails and calls after 8PM to talk. Emailed the owner and he stated that’s how he works. Well that is not how I work so sorry.

Presidential: Next week

Note: I have not gotten any numbers yet but will be once we meet with them again.

 

[elwood58]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

Now is the time to get all of your questions answered, and figure out what you really want. Lots of personal preferences come into play. Get as much deck as you want/need now, and do not go cheap on the equipment.

Once they dig a big hole in your yard you will not be thinking as clearly as you are now.

 

[AZHeat]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

The Cal Pools in-floor is junk. Not even an in floor so to speak. Doesn't work. Both Presidential and Cal will push the pebble radiance. Ozone is personal choice; i'd stay with conventional system I went with Unique because we liked their design the best but you are correct, communication not the best.

 

[Modawg2k]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

Best of luck. I live in north Phoenix and made the mistake of going with a general contractor for the entire backyard.

 

[AZCheesehead]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

Thanks for the replies.

This is our second pool so there are things that we don’t want to do again. The biggest difference this time is that we are not sitting in the builder’s design center trying to select everything and wonder what it will look like.

AZheat: Just wondering if you had the Cal system installed before or know someone who does you have it and what you don’t like about it?

 

[bacevedo]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

We just had our pool completed by California Pools. See the build thread in my signature below.

We liked their design the best. Communication throughout the process wasn't great, but I believe that is true with any large builder. They can't spend the one-on-one time at your location like a small pool builder can. Just be prepared to be your own project manager on-site no matter who you go with. With that expectation in mind your pool build will go much smoother. They build a quality pool but if you aren't watching them, they just may not build exactly to your design. So if your design is complex or you want things exactly where they should be on the design then you might have to keep an eye on it. An example would be a baja step that is supposed to be exactly centered on some element of the pool. It's possible they would build it off center and not realize it was supposed to be lined up with something else.

As for the cal pool cleaning system, we went with their waveforce system which is really just venturi jets along the wall. It's designed to just keep the water churning as much as possible and keep particles suspended until they can get filtered out. I have only had the pool filled for a few days, so I don't know how well it will work in practice. There are 8 returns up high on the wall, two large main drains, the skimmer, and a vacuum port. There should be plenty of water flow so we'll see how clean it keeps the pool.

I will say I have had to sweep dust off the floor a few times, but that dust could have been there before the equipment was set up. It was windy over the weekend before the pool startup and our backyard has a lot of dirt around the pool. The true test will be during our monsoon storms this summer. But that's where the vacuum port comes in and I will just put the vacuum in and let it do it's thing.

We didn't want an in-floor system because I know they aren't that effective in certain parts of the pool, and you usually need to sweep it anyway. Plus, if you want to add a vacuum in the future, you basically turn off the in-floor system anyway. It just didn't seem worth it for the price and possible headaches.

We have the Pebble Plus finish, which is just basically Pebble Sheen with abolone shell and glass beads. Cal Plastering (no relation to Cal Pools) does the finish as they are one of the only (if not only) companies in the valley that can do a Pebble Tech brand pool. So the finish will be top notch. We love our Mediterranean Pebble Plus finish.

Cal Pools also warranties the pool shell and finish for life. It's a real lifetime warranty. That was peace of mind that I liked.

 

[AZCheesehead]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

Bryan thanks for the detailed information about Cal pools. I have been watching your build unfold on the forum and it looks great. I can’t imagine too many systems out there that will get all the dust particles off the floor after a nice dusty monsoon storm.

 

[bacevedo]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

The Cal Pools in-floor is junk. Not even an in floor so to speak. Doesn't work.

What in floor from Cal Pools are you talking about? Are you referring to the WaveForce (which is what I have)? Why do you think it is junk?

It's not an in-floor cleaning system and it wasn't sold to us as such. We were told it helps to keep the particles suspended so they could be filtered. I don't see how it is any worse than a normal pool with a few returns and a vacuum. They said we could just throw the vacuum in when needed.

 

[AZHeat]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

It's not an infloor cleaning system. All it consists of is jets on the side that blow down. It turns over the water but doesn't clean. It circulates water but it's not going to remove the dirt. THey say it will suspend the particles to be removed by the filter. The particles you can see are too big to suspend. They will settle. One good haboob and you'll see what I mean. As long as you understand that it won't clean the pool, you are fine. I suggest you call references before you decide. I called 3 and 2 said not effective at cleaning and the third only had it through the winter. I went with the PV3 by Paramount. It has a 98% cleaning guarantee. My last pool was a Shasta and I think it had the A&A system. It worked better than not having one but had a few dead spots. Still, I rather brush the deadspots than have a robot or nothing at all. I heard that the Paddock system was the best but they are not in business anymore. I did hear that Presidential was possibly buying the rights to the Paddock system.

The part about having to be your own superintendent is true with just about any of the builders although I only know about my own experience. Ours was the same way. Same with communication. They are great to earn your business but once you sign its a different story. If you want more attention, I'd wait for the off season. It's so busy now everything is about 2 weeks out it seems. My personal opinion is to go with the design you like best. They all use the same subs. Like someone mentioned, there are only 3 Pebbletec applicators in the valley so whomever your builder is, they all use the same subs. The builders do very little in-house. Plumbing and electrical is about it.

 

[AZHeat]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

The Cal Pools in-floor is junk. Not even an in floor so to speak. Doesn't work.

What in floor from Cal Pools are you talking about? Are you referring to the WaveForce (which is what I have)? Why do you think it is junk?

It's not an in-floor cleaning system and it wasn't sold to us as such. We were told it helps to keep the particles suspended so they could be filtered. I don't see how it is any worse than a normal pool with a few returns and a vacuum. They said we could just throw the vacuum in when needed.

Yes that is what I was referring to. It's not a true in-floor system and is the only system they sell as far as I know. Their angle is that no infloor system works so they don't sell one. They just use their wall returns to shoot down into a zone that supposedly pushes to the main drain. You were obviously told it is not an infloor cleaner but doesn't appear the OP was under the same impression.

 

[AZHeat]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

We have the Pebble Plus finish, which is just basically Pebble Sheen with abolone shell and glass beads. Cal Plastering (no relation to Cal Pools) does the finish as they are one of the only (if not only) companies in the valley that can do a Pebble Tech brand pool. So the finish will be top notch. We love our Mediterranean Pebble Plus finish.

Cal Pools also warranties the pool shell and finish for life. It's a real lifetime warranty. That was peace of mind that I liked.

Pebble Plus is NOT PebbleTec. It goes by different names with different builders (Pebble Radiance for Presidential) but it is not a PebbleTec product. I forget who's product it is but I think it is Cal Plaster but not certain.

AZ requires all pool builders to provide a lifetime warranty on the shell. AZ Registrar of Contractors backs that so even if your builder goes out of business, there is a recovery fund to back it. It only applies to original owner.

 

[Modawg2k]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

AZ requires all pool builders to provide a lifetime warranty on the shell. AZ Registrar of Contractors backs that so even if your builder goes out of business, there is a recovery fund to back it. It only applies to original owner.

I took my backyard contractor to the AZ Registrar of Contractors in Aug 2010. My pool was part of my complaint (I have stains from improper prep) and I didn't get money from the recovery fund until Feb this year.

 

[AZHeat]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

AZ requires all pool builders to provide a lifetime warranty on the shell. AZ Registrar of Contractors backs that so even if your builder goes out of business, there is a recovery fund to back it. It only applies to original owner.

I took my backyard contractor to the AZ Registrar of Contractors in Aug 2010. My pool was part of my complaint (I have stains from improper prep) and I didn't get money from the recovery fund until Feb this year.

At least you got some reimbursement eventually. Point I was making is that you will get the same warranty on the pool shell at long as you use a registered builder here in AZ. Enforcing the warranty or collecting is a different story. I would recommend that any prospective person looking to build a pool research the ROC site and look at the complaints. One PB I liked and got along well with had few complaints but they were all warranty related. I contacted 2 of their references and one had a severe problem with warranty where in the middle of summer it took them over a month to replace/repair a filter under warranty. This resulted in the owner not being able to use the pool mid summer and they had extra costs that the PB did not cover such as draining and acid washing pool from 30 days of stagnant mid summer water. To me, this substantiated the complaints on ROC website. The builder said it was due to "third party warranty company" but to me it doesn't matter who's at fault; ultimate responsibility lies with the builder. If I was the builder and had a pool I built broken under warranty in mid summer, I'd do everything in my power to include me going over personally to fix if I had problems with subs. I realize problems will come up on any large project but it is how those problems are handled that set companies apart and due to the shear volume of pools here in Phx, all the large builders will have complaints. But the trends can give you insight into how they handle thing. If anyone contracts with a pool builder's salesman without doing research, they deserve what they get. And they have some real good salesman, just don't take everything they say as being completely true and accurate. Once they make the sale, they are on to the next lead.

 

[AZCheesehead]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

First quote in and it was a little shock on the price. Just under $60,000. Which by the way did not include BBQ island and any landscaping. Also price could go up another $2000-3500 depending on the dig.

This is what was quoted:

98 perimeter pool
28 perimeter spa
Normal excavation with mini bobcat
Auto water level
420 sq.ft cartridge filter system
Whispa air muffler system for spa
400K BTU heater
Quik Dek-Clor chlorine feeder
QuikPure 3 Ozone system
MagnaSweep V-Force in-floor cleaning system with 20 heads
QuikSkim Venturi skimmer, leaf vac and drain
Steel
Electric
Automation: Easy touch 8PS, Spa side up to 95’ run
Shotcrete
Tile water line (pool and spa)
1449 sq. ft pavers
191 ln. ft. travertine
Fire pit
Dam wall spillway (3)
Pebble Sheen (pool and spa)
48” high wall by 7’ wall to block pool equipment

 

[Slippery when wet]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

AZCheesehead did you get a quote from Caribbean? They are wrapping up my project this weekend and I got a similar size package for a pretty good price. PM me if you need the salesman's name.

 

[milambr]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

AZCheesehead,
Just had my pool completed a week and a half ago by Rondo Pools. I am extremely satisfied with the project and with Rondo. Before contacting with the Pool I checked out both the BBB.org website and the ROC AZ site and of all the pool builders here in AZ, Rondo was the only one without any complaints. Now that I've completed the project I can see why. Communication, Communication, Communication...plain and simple I was communicated with every step of the way. Quite frankly at the beginning of the process even the sales person (Andy) told us about all of the negatives we should expect (tearing up the landscaping, marks on the pavement, etc.). What sales person does that before the contract is signed? Sales people normally just focus on the positive, Andy made sure that we had a complete picture ahead of time. The first time we went into Rondo I was quite impressed, as we were talking to the sales person the owner Kevin Rondeau walked by and stopped to talk with us. This is a family owned business and Kevin told us about his philosophy of pool building. Quality is a must for them. They only use the best sub contractors they can find. Our Super (Pete) was on the job site at least once a week and during some parts was there multiple days in a row making sure everything was done right and correct. We're there issues, sure there were. After having been through the process, I can't imagine anyone having a perfect pool build but the important part was that Pete made sure the issues were dealt with and handled and taken care of. I would highly recommend Rondo Pools to anyone looking to build a pool in the Phoenix area. At completion besides all the other stuff they give you brushes, skimmer, etc they gave me a Taylor K-2005 Test Kit and spend the time to show me how to use it and talk pool chemistry with me. Feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to talk to you on the phone about Rondo. They get my very highest recommendation.

 

[gumby6506]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

Cheeze, I am doing my own build in North Phoenix. I never attempted to do anything like this on my own before but have come to realize that it really is no big deal and they way to go if I ever build again. I had Shasta and Dolphin come out for estimates and, after their sticker shock wore off I decided to do it myself. I am going to save a bunch of money doing it myself and have been able to put that savings into upgraded stuff. If you are interested I can put you in contact with a local company that will do the design, get the permits, set you up with a guy to get all the equipment you need, and give you a list of subs they recommend for each phase of the build, then it is all up to you to do the scheduling. It has been an easy process so far, check out my thread and see what you think. If you decide on a PB, I cannot stress enough the point AZHeat is making about doing ROC checks. It has LITERALLY saved me from a bunch of headaches.

As for in-floor heads, I am going with Paramount but only on the steps and benches. I am going to attempt using a robotic cleaner, but had the plumber put in a suction-side port in case the robotic thing doesn't work out.

As for Pebble-tec brand of plaster, only 2 companies here in the valley install it: Cal Plaster (as mentioned above) and Prado & Sons. Everything else is a knock-off brand, not saying they are not any good, it is just that it isn't the actual "Pebble-Tec" brand.

Hit me up if you have any questions

 

[AZCheesehead]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

Gumby,

Thanks for the information. I have been on the internet looking at the ROC and many other resources to make sure we are going with a reputable PB. I too looked at doing the build myself but lack some of the experience and knowledge to get it done correctly without getting doopted. I really don't have the time to invest in doing it myself. I realize even if I get a PB I still will have to make sure things are done correctly just like anything else you contract out. We are still looking at PBs and have not made a decision on who we are going with at the moment.

Scott

 

[AZCheesehead]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

Well we finally pulled the trigger on the pool contract last night after a long drawn out process of obtaining quotes. Of the five quotes we got only two of them were responsive and wanted our business. One of the five hasn’t even called back after two weeks even after coming over and taking measurements.

Thanks to CactusGirly for the recommendation. Gary said he would start the week of July 8th.

 

[bacevedo]

Re: Starting the process in North Phoenix

Who did you end up going with?