stains keep returning

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randyrayd

randyrayd

0
Aug 4, 2016
12
Austin, TX
Newby here and I'm having a heck of a time with stains. They are brownish green and almost appear like algae, but won't scrub away. I call them liver spots. I have done the liquid and powder stain removers and the powder (AA?) seems to work the best, but they start returning after a month or two.

I'm waiting until colder (it's hardly ever really cold in Austin) when I don't chlorinate to try again for stain removal. Lowering the chlorine and getting it back up in the summer is not only expensive, but I also have to deal with the algae problem until I can get the chlorine level back up. From what I've read, whatever is staining the pool goes into a solution when I add the stain remover, but is still in the water, only to return as stains.

Any and all suggestions are welcome. Also, will a CuLator remove whatever is causing the stain from suspension in my pool water?

Thanks ahead of time.

Randall
 
If the ascorbic acid cleared the stain, it's most likely iron. The key thing is to add a good sequestering agent after the stain is gone to keep the iron from re-depositing on the pool surface. You'll need to add it routinely to maintain the pool. Also concentrate on keeping your pH in the lower end of the range.

Check out this post on iron stains Ascorbic Treatment to rid Pool of metal stains
 
Another interesting thing to consider Randall if it is iron ..... how did you get it in the pool? Any ideas? Unless you're outside the city in a rural area (well water), I wouldn't have expected you to have an iron problem. It would be good to know so that you try to eliminate the source of iron if possible. Just to confirm ... have you ever added anything else to your water other than regular bleach to chlorinate? HEB's Bravo or Wal-Mart's Great Value are quite popular in our areas.

It might also help us down the road if you add to your signature what test kit you are using. :) Speaking of that, you might want to post a full set of test results for us on your next update.....just to be safe and make sure we're not missing something unique to your situation.
 
I'm curious about how you are chlorinating. You should be able to bump FC by 5 with one gallon of chlorine to the tune of 3-4 bucks. Right?

Or, maybe you have a lot of sun and too little stabilizer?
 
Thanks to all for the advice. I'll continue to monitor for any additional ideas.

Any recommendations for a good sequestering agent? No answers regarding the CuLator, which reportedly removes the metals from suspension in pool water and eliminates the need for a sequestering agent.

Texas Splash: The only way I can imagine iron getting into my water is when we re-roofed a while back, bunches of shingle staples got in the pool when the old shingles were scraped off. I didn't notice them until they started staining the pool surface. I'm not sure if that could be the reason iron is in the water, but it's possible the metal could be in a soluble state. Come to think of it, not long after is when I started having the stain problem. I have Leslie's test my water and will post results in a few days. I'm semi-retired and work Friday and Sunday, so I'll try to get to it next week and post here.

Texas Splash and xyz: I have only added chlorine tabs in floaters and shock and have never thought of household bleach until reading a few posts here. I'm a cheapskate so I'll have to look into that. I'll do some searching here regarding household chlorine bleach. When treating the stains in the past, I have had to add pounds and pounds of shock to get the chlorine level back up quickly so as not to develop and algae problem.

Again, thanks y'all.
 
CUlator does seem to remove metals but it doesn't say how much metal it removes and seems kind of hit and miss. There are sequestrant recommendations in the link I posted in post #2.
 
Randy, welcome to TFP. We put a lot of faith in testing here to diagnose problems and prevent them using either the tft100 test kit or the Taylor k2006.

When dealing with iron and stain treatments, getting your chemistry dialed in is a major part of remedy so if you don't already have one of these types of kits, check out TFTestkits.net .

I will bet a dollar to a donut the reasons the stains keep coming back are two-fold...you may not be reading and controlling your ph adequately for metals (keep ph lower, eg. 7.2-7.4) and/or you are not replenishing metal sequestrant after the AA treatment weekly/monthly depending n need... which wears off and releases the iron back into the water.
 
Okay. The pool temp is down and I haven't added Chlorine in a few weeks, so I'm ready to tackle the stain problem. Below are test results from Leslie's from a few weeks back when I was chlorinating:

FAC-8 ppm, TAC-8 ppm, CH-480, CYA-480 ppm, TA-95 ppm, pH-8, Phosphates-200 ppb.

Oddly, considering all indications lead to iron staining, my pool tested zero for iron. Some of the above are borderline high, but nothing startling, I believe.

Your experience and thoughts are appreciated.

rd
 

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Your pH at 8 is a big part of the problem. It isn't borderline, it is way high. Some pools require daily pH adjustments, which means daily testing. Getting test results from Leslie's is really little better than rolling dice and using those numbers. You can't manage a pool with their random testing process.
 
I think you may have posted some results in error, can you double check please? I am especially concerned at the CYA and the calcium both measuring at 480ppm

Most, if not all CYA tests top out at 100ppm, so unless the test water was diluted 5x I dont see how you could get that result?? And at that level of dilution the accuracy of the test would be huge

We also recommend that CYA should be below 100ppm, otherwise you FC level has to be kept much higher to compensate. This would mean (I think) that you would have to top up your sequestrate more too
 
Thank you John T. and Caco. Caco, you are correct. My CYA is 110. John, if I have to test and apply chemicals daily, I will either hire a pool service or fill the pool with concrete and call it a sports court. I have had this pool for 16 years and it has not been that high maintenance.
 
Randall, many pools top-out in CYA (over 100) in just 1-2 seasons when chlorine tabs are used exclusively. It's just the way those tabs are built. The exception to the high CYA are sometimes pools that have a large water exchange either at the end of the season (winter closing) or consistent/heavy rains throughout the season. In our area of TX, you seem to have done quite well using tabs exclusively for so long. In the end though, a high CYA makes FC balancing tough. The tabs are convenient, but that side-effect of stabilizer going in the water adds-up. For those of us who don't use tabs, we simply add some bleach each day or add a SWG to create FC automatically. For the most part, that's the majority of daily chemical additions. For me, I pick-up a couple gallons of HEB's regular "Bravo" bleach each weekend and that's the main item I add to the pool each day. Just takes a few minutes.

I can also say from personal experience that our local pool store testing butchered my initial pool maintenance efforts, selling me over-priced products based on their inaccurate testing. A good home test kit (TF-100 or Taylor K-2006) is a small purchase compared to the amount of money saved by pool store gimmicks/products. Just like changing the oil in your car, save money knowing you did the job right (testing) without the pressure of trying to be sold other products just because you're there.

Our TX weather is unseasonably warm, but if your water temp is still below 60, you may be able to get-by with a few backwashes and small water exchange just to get the CYA down a bit. At least then you could simply keep the FC elevated (with regular bleach) once a day. So for what it's worth, we at TFP hate to see anyone so frustrated with pool care that they fill like filling it in, but in many cases the frustration is an end-result of bad advice, inaccurate testing, and/or pool industry maintenance habits that comes back to bite us in the backside. It's not your fault. You went to the pool store who "should" be the expert, but we've learned over & over in most cases they are not. Hopefully we can help you get control of your oasis and eliminate that frustration. By all means, continue to ask questions as needed.
 
Randy, re
John, if I have to test and apply chemicals daily, I will either hire a pool service or fill the pool with concrete and call it a sports court.
Click to expand...

-- Consider looking at it this way...a few minutes daily on the front end, or endless mucking with treatments on the back end!

With that said, if you really really don't want to test frequently and you just wanna use pucks, then consider a fresh start with complete water replacement. That will remove your too-high cya, and remove whatever metals have built up either from corrosion, additives, or source water. You'd want to test your source water first, and you'd still need to check your cya and replace water periodically, and have at least a weekly schedule for testing ph/FC since pucks are acidic.

But as far as metal management goes, methods we regularly advise on TFP just are not going to work reliably without more frequent self-testing or adoption of the TFP parameters, IMHO. There are just too many unintended consequences flying blind with pool store formulations.
 
Update: I used a product called Robelle mineral out and the staining is less severe, but still very visible. The product instructs to keep the filter pump running and more staining should disappear. Just in case the staining is still visible, I've ordered some ascorbic acid as that has worked well in the past although the stains have returned. My understanding is I will have to add a sequestrant regularly but am currently using CULater which is supposed to remove whatever is causing the stain, that will be suspended in the water after treating the stains.

I have contacted a company that uses reverse osmosis to treat pool water as opposed to draining and re-filling. Does anyone have input as to this type of treatment please.

I've edited this because you guys are just tooooooo fast! Two replys already.

Texas Splash: For the first 7 or 8 years I had a salt water system, but after two generator replacements, I went to pucks. I wasn't aware about the CYA increase though. Plus salt deposits were building up on the discharge from the spa to the pool and on the water shears. I'm curious as to why the CYA won't dissipate with rain and backwashing? As stated, I used to have a salt system, but there there isn't any salt solution in my pool now and the salt deposits are mostly gone now.

I may have to go with the laundry bleach, but my recycling bin will fill up and overflow. From your experience, how much should be added and does it need to be added daily? Also, FYI, I don't use pucks with the water temp below 60.

Swampwoman: Thanks for your input. I've ordered a test kit and will have to incorporate water testing into a frequent regimen.

Thanks again for sharing your time and knowledge.

rd
 
Last edited:
Okay, I got my pH down to 7.4, added 1.5 lb. of AA, some of the stains reduced. Added another 1.5, stains reduced somewhat further so I said the heck with it and added the other 2 lb. Most of my stains are gone, but the water turned very cloudy. I'm pretty sure I can get that cleared up, but the biggest problem is the water seems to have quit circulating. I backwashed and thought that cured the problem, but went out in couple of hours and the water isn't circulating again. Same procedure then same results in another hour or so. I just backwashed again and the flow from the spa is normal, but I'm betting the grids get stopped up again.

I have a second set of filter grids/manifold that are cleaned and assembled that I will swap out tomorrow, but can anyone tell me what is happening. I'll search the forum on the cloudy water, but any advice on that would be appreciated also.

Thanks,
Randall
 
Did AA treatment at the end of last season worked well. Didn't keep ph low and didn't know how to manage Sequestration agent so stains came back. Left them all winter and now at the swim season will try AA again. How often and how much sequestration do I add to keep the stains at bay?
 
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