Speakers! Help!

[rjward]

FWIW - with the speaker config that you show, you may never get a very clear stereo image and will likely get a number of out of phase spots.
Also consider where you are likely to be gathering, and do you want to be inundated with all one channel (all left on one side and all right on the other).

I would start with two pairs using a wider spread and see how the phasing plays out, and then add if needed. If you REALLY want to geek out over it you can use a db meter to check the level from each speaker at certain spots and tweak placement / volume as needed then reverse the wiring if you notice phase issues / muddiness.

 

[gatorwayne]

The cat 5 stuff is not a good idea with these long runs. These cables end up being high capacitance and long runs make this worse.

@50' 16ga is not really big enough but so much better than the cat 5!

Sent via Tapatalk...

The cat5 cable was interesting. I built one and it was a PITA so I decided one was enough and I was out nothing but my time. My reading on the interent is that they make amazing speaker cables. I'm still undecided between 14 or 16 gauge. I'll likely go with 14 gauge for future expansion. One day the speakers might get upgraded and hang on the fence instead of in the landscaping. Hanging them on the fence adds 8-20 ft to the wire runs.

 

[gatorwayne]

FWIW - with the speaker config that you show, you may never get a very clear stereo image and will likely get a number of out of phase spots.
Also consider where you are likely to be gathering, and do you want to be inundated with all one channel (all left on one side and all right on the other).

I would start with two pairs using a wider spread and see how the phasing plays out, and then add if needed. If you REALLY want to geek out over it you can use a db meter to check the level from each speaker at certain spots and tweak placement / volume as needed then reverse the wiring if you notice phase issues / muddiness.

You did give a few things to go read about but I'm confused as to how someone would be inundated with one channel. A speaker on the left channel will have speakers on the right channel adjacent to it and a speaker on the right channel would have speakers on the left channel adjacent to it. Unless someone is located right in front of a speaker, wouldn't they hear both channels?

 

[rjward]

I may be looking at the wrong image, but it looks like if my back is against 3/8 or 4/7 I will have an overwhelming level of left or right channel behind me. The cross speaker placement (the other pairs) could create a freaky zone in the middle where you end up with mud or actually reduced volume due to phase alignment. The easiest way to tell - if you have the extra cable - is to play around with placement before finalizing a run / mounting anything.

The other option would be to create separate zones where you would have clear stereo sound under your cover for example, and then another zone or two for the pool. Maybe a pair behind the spa. That would also allow you to only run the pairs you need if you are just hanging out in a certain area, and run them all for a big party etc. By spacing them out enough and trying to angle everything so that you get an equal distribution of L & R from key vantage points, you should be able to get a pretty dispersed sound field.

Just a thought.

 

[Durk]

How would you wire the Cat 5? Those are 24AWG in four unshielded twisted pairs (UTP). If you used one cable per speaker, that is 4 24 ga. in each direction adding up to a copper cross section equivalent to only an 18 guage wire. Even if you used 2 Cat 5 wires per speaker--eight conductors from one cable on each terminal, you would still have less copper cross-section than a 14 ga. speaker cable, about a 15 AWG equivalent. Far from awesome in my opinion.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

How would you wire the Cat 5? Those are 24AWG in four unshielded twisted pairs (UTP). If you used one cable per speaker, that is 4 24 ga. in each direction adding up to a copper cross section equivalent to only an 18 guage wire. Even if you used 2 Cat 5 wires per speaker--eight conductors from one cable on each terminal, you would still have less copper cross-section than a 14 ga. speaker cable, about a 15 AWG equivalent. Far from awesome in my opinion.

People build these litz type arrays of interwoven cat 5 wires. They are really high capacitance and that mimics some very high dollar cables out there that are about 15 ga and high capacitance but all that does is act like a filter which is silly. People love them - but people love magic bricks too...

 

[ComputerGuyInNOLA]

Dear Gatorwayne,

You are getting a lot of misinformation regarding this subject. You can take it for what it is worth if you are so inclined. The information I have given you is sound and supported by many professionals in the industry. I am one of the three founders of Digital Designers, LLC in New Orleans, Louisiana. Although I sold my interest in this company several years ago, I am intimately knowledgeable in the design of audio systems for residential applications. You can look up this company to see the type of systems we delivered for a range of clients that include government, celebrities, and high net worth individuals. I have had no affiliation with this company since 2004 but I know my audio. If you care to discuss this in person, please fee free to call my office and make an appointment with my office manager and I will discuss it with you in person. Our office number is 504-828-4848. Ask for Kim, my office manger, and tell her I asked for you to call to discuss an installation of stereo equipment. She will arrange a time for us to talk.

Regards,

David Hurley

 

[gatorwayne]

I stripped two 25' pieces of cat5 out of the sheath, separated the wires into 8 twisted pairs and rolled them up, realigned one end of the wires so I could twist them (not braid like some people I read about, that would suck!), tied them to the handle of a solid object, rolled out the wires until they were nice and straight, tied them to a hook used to hang things up in the garage, put the hook in a drill, and squeezed the trigger (so to speak). It created a very colorful 23' speaker cable. I'm not really in the mood to make more speaker cables. While it was interesting, it was also a PITA separating the individsual pairs. I would need 4 more cables of 55' and the thought of making just one that long was enough to stop my little project from completing.

I'll probably give the cable to my son. He's an IT pro and gaming geek. He'll probably get a kick out of it.

 

[X-PertPool]

I'm by no means an audio expert, but I would just get heavy guage speaker wire and run everything and see how it sounds and adjust it from there. Just run the wires on the ground and if it sounds great then start making everything look pretty by hiding wire etc and tweaking.

 

[gatorwayne]

I have all the pieces and decided to hook it all up last night. It was a HP netbook, Syba USB soundcard with spdif output, Onkyo HTR-530, Outdoor Speaker Depot 1 set of AP520s and 3 sets of RX540. I have a volume control but did not use it. I wired it series / parallel using 16 gauge wire that was 6' long.

I tuned up Ozzy's Diary of a Madman and turned on the receiver. I stood in the middle of the speakers and they sounded really good. I'm very happy with it for now. I am going to use 12 gauge wire when I install the gear outside.

 

[rjward]

Excellent song choice. Randy Rhoads is definitely deserving of 12 gauge wire.

 

[gatorwayne]

The 300 feet of 12 gauge wire came in this week from monoprice and it was a beautiful day down here in central east Florida. The builder has mostly formed the deck so I decided to lay everything out and see how it sounded. My PVC conduit I cut and glued in the garage was within inches of where I want the speakers so that went well. I placed the speakers and got about to cutting and stripping the wire into single strands. Most runs were 44’ with a few at 53’ and 56’. I skipped the volume control for now and hooked the speakers directly to the receiver. I connected the netbook to the receiver via SPDIF cable. I ran teamviewer on the netbook and my kindle fire. I started up some music on the netbook from the kindle and my wife and I went into the pool to have a listen. It sounded a bit off so I checked my connections and one had come loose so three rocks were not working. Reconnected the cable and it sounds great! Played some Ozzy again and then put on some Jimmy Buffet. We are very happy with the sound and how the speakers look. I turned it up a bit (about 1/2 way) and it was plenty loud with no distortion at all. Definitely louder than we would ever need at a party. I marked all the wires so I know what goes where once the builder finishes up and hands over the pool to us. Everything all cleaned up waiting anxiously to put the conduit in the ground and listen to the tunes while swimming in the pool instead of wondering around the empty shell.

If anyone is interested, the speakers (from outdoor speaker depot) are a pair of AP520 to go under the eaves and three pairs of RX540 rock speakers to surround the deck, an Onkyo HTR-530receiver, HP Mini netbook, Syba USB sounds card with SPDIF output, and a SPDIF cable. Teamviewer software for remote desktop control of the netbook. Speakers were $50 per pair, sound card was $12, and SPDIF cable was $4. $215 for great tunes about by the pool.