Spa alkalinity falls about 50ppm every day, have to add alkalinity every day

Braymaster64

In The Industry
May 6, 2024
8
Wisconsin, US
I recently (a few months ago) started assisting with pool operations at a small hotel. The person I assist told me that we have to add total alkalinity every morning to bring the levels up since the drop every day. For example, if I add bicarb in the morning and bring the level up to 80ppm (the level recommended by the state of WI), the next morning it will have fallen to around 20-30ppm. Not only that, but I have to add about double the amount I get from the formula in order to bring it up the desired amount, i.e. it should only take .7lbs of bicarb to bring the level up 50ppm but it generally takes around 1.5lbs or more.

My supervisor says that she dumps in 4 scoops (about 2.5 lbs) as a matter of course (she doesn't use the formulas but just "guesstimates"), so if I come in on a day after she has worked, the TA level is about 60ppm. I haven't noticed much difference in the drop in TA between slow days and busier days in the pool area.

I asked the course instructor from my certification class what he thought. He suggested testing the TA level in our tap water to see if it might be low and bringing down the level of the spa water. However the tap water tests at about 120ppm, plus our 18,000 gallon pool maintains a stable level of TA.

The pH and chlorine levels of the spa are fairly stable. pH goes up a bit (maybe 7.3 to 7.4) when bicarb is added. The disinfectant used is liquid chlorine. Temperature of the spa is 102 degrees Fahrenheit.

My supervisor told me to run the jets when adding bicarb. I have tried adding it without running the jets to see if that made a difference and it does seem to somewhat reduce the amount of bicarb I need to add. It doesn't prevent the alkalinity from falling over a 24 hour period.

Any ideas what could be causing these problems? Is there any reason for concern (besides the expense of using sodium carbonate every day) as far as the "health" of the spa water or possible damage to equipment from adding chemicals so frequently?
 
I recently (a few months ago) started assisting with pool operations at a small hotel. The person I assist told me that we have to add total alkalinity every morning to bring the levels up since the drop every day. For example, if I add bicarb in the morning and bring the level up to 80ppm (the level recommended by the state of WI), the next morning it will have fallen to around 20-30ppm. Not only that, but I have to add about double the amount I get from the formula in order to bring it up the desired amount, i.e. it should only take .7lbs of bicarb to bring the level up 50ppm but it generally takes around 1.5lbs or more.

My supervisor says that she dumps in 4 scoops (about 2.5 lbs) as a matter of course (she doesn't use the formulas but just "guesstimates"), so if I come in on a day after she has worked, the TA level is about 60ppm. I haven't noticed much difference in the drop in TA between slow days and busier days in the pool area.

I asked the course instructor from my certification class what he thought. He suggested testing the TA level in our tap water to see if it might be low and bringing down the level of the spa water. However the tap water tests at about 120ppm, plus our 18,000 gallon pool maintains a stable level of TA.

The pH and chlorine levels of the spa are fairly stable. pH goes up a bit (maybe 7.3 to 7.4) when bicarb is added. The disinfectant used is liquid chlorine. Temperature of the spa is 102 degrees Fahrenheit.

My supervisor told me to run the jets when adding bicarb. I have tried adding it without running the jets to see if that made a difference and it does seem to somewhat reduce the amount of bicarb I need to add. It doesn't prevent the alkalinity from falling over a 24 hour period.

Any ideas what could be causing these problems? Is there any reason for concern (besides the expense of using sodium carbonate every day) as far as the "health" of the spa water or possible damage to equipment from adding chemicals so frequently?
The testing method being faulty is the most likely cause of that kind of goofyness.
 
It is a taylor test kit. We recently replaced any expired testing chemicals so I know they are up to date.
Which Taylor test kit - they make a ton of different models.
Outline the reagents, amounts and steps you take to do the TA test.
Do you hold the reagents perfectly vertical?
Do you allow each drop to fully form on the dropper tip?
Do you continue to add drops until the last drop doesn't change the color any further and then substract the last drop that didn't change the color?
 
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Which Taylor test kit - they make a ton of different models.
Outline the reagents, amounts and steps you take to do the TA test.
Do you hold the reagents perfectly vertical?
Do you allow each drop to fully form on the dropper tip?
Do you continue to add drops until the last drop doesn't change the color any further and then substract the last drop that didn't change the color?
It says Item #57086 Complete (FAS-DPD chlorine).
The test procedure is to 1) add 2 drops R-0007 (thinosulfate) to a 25mL sample and swirl to mix
2) add 5 drops R-0008 (Total alkalinity indicator) to the sample and swirl to mix
3) then add R-0009 (sulfuric acid) dropwise until the sample color turns from green to red.
4) multiple the drops added in step 3 by 10 and record as ppm.

Yes, I hold the reagents perfectly vertical. I'm not sure if I allow each drop to fully form - I think so. I just add drops until the sample turns pinkish-red as it says in the test-kit instructions, I haven't tried adding until the color no longer changes.

It hadn't occurred to me that it would be a problem with the testing procedure because there is no issue with the pool TA going down, only with the hot tub. Plus I re-test about half an hour after adding bicarb and measure a higher level of TA (but the measurement is low again within 24 hours).
 
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It may be a rebranded Taylor K-2006C
Does it look similar to this one?

Great - sounds like you are doing the test correctly.....
Try no forcing the drops off the tip - dispense at a rate of 1 drop about every second.
Continue to add drops until the last drop doesn't make a color change - and subtract the last drop that didn't change the color. Some call the result Barbie pink.

Does the hot tub have an automated pH system?
Maybe with all the aeration of a hot tub, the pH system could be adding acid to reduce the pH or the system might be leaking or malfunctioning.
 
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It may be a rebranded Taylor K-2006C
Does it look similar to this one?

Great - sounds like you are doing the test correctly.....
Try no forcing the drops off the tip - dispense at a rate of 1 drop about every second.
Continue to add drops until the last drop doesn't make a color change - and subtract the last drop that didn't change the color. Some call the result Barbie pink.

Does the hot tub have an automated pH system?
Maybe with all the aeration of a hot tub, the pH system could be adding acid to reduce the pH or the system might be leaking or malfunctioning.
Looks similar. I can't find a test kit labeled like mine online, weirdly.

Thanks for the testing pointers; I'll try that out.

Yes, it has automated pH system. I wondered that myself, if the system might be overcorrecting for a higher pH.
 

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Let us know if turning off the automatic dosing changes anything.
And will be interesting to see if the TA result changes with the new pointers.
I tried this for a few hours yesterday. The jets were turned on twice during that period which caused the pH to go from 7.2 to way off the charts (my guess around 9.0 from the color difference but hard to say). This somehow also caused the system to read the chlorine as critically low and the chlorine feeder dumped in a Crud-ton of chlorine raising it to over 30ppm. I'm not sure what the TA reading was at this point since the sample kept turning bright yellow instead of red (possibly due to the excess chlorine in the water?).

After turning on the automatic feeder for the acid to bring down the pH to normal levels and dechlorinating the spa, the TA level was about 60ppm lower than before I started this whole process.

So I think the automatic feeder is probably bringing down the TA, however leaving it off wreaks havoc on the spa's pH and chlorine levels.
 
So you are using an ORP sensor for FC control.

Your system is not properly designed to manage the pool and spa. Not sure we can make any recommendations as this is a commercial pool setting and does not use TFPC methods.
 
So you are using an ORP sensor for FC control.

Your system is not properly designed to manage the pool and spa. Not sure we can make any recommendations as this is a commercial pool setting and does not use TFPC methods.
That is correct regarding the ORP sensor.

Oh well, I guess we will keep adding sodium bicarb to raise the alkalinity. Does this have a negative effect on the equipment though or other negative effects to be concerned about?