Someone Check my logic, Please:)(High CH/High TA & Managing PH)

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A

AmyCJeff

Gold Supporter
May 31, 2023
116
Henderson, NV
Pool Size
19000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Ok..long story short...I started doing the TFP method THREE months ago.

The thing I am struggling most with it PH. It wants to rise, and rise FAST.

The last 10 days of my logs are a MESS...we had a ton of storms, out of own trips and just crazy busy (so ignore those..lol). go back to August 31st and before and you will see a more consistent log schedule and results.

BUT here are my current results:
FC = 8 (I usually maintain a level of 10)..but since I was trying to get my PH back in balance I needed the FC below 10
Ph = 7.2
TA = 90
CYA = 50
CH = 1025


So...historically I was aiming for PH = 7.2, because my CH was so high and I was trying to keep my CSI in check.
About 3 weeks ago, for some reason I forgot that and tried maintaining a higher PH = 7.6. This is because I read that maintaining a higher PH will help slow the rise, because when you aim low, the faster it wants to rise. But, I am now back to aiming for 7.2

My CH is high...I know this. We did an entire 19,000 galloon refill in June and got it to 700 (was at 1600)...but through Las Vegas Summer Heat/evaporation, it has risen. We will do another refill in the next few months...but in the meantime this is what it is.

Here is my question: I read through Pool School and says to not mess with your TA as long as it is within 80-100, unless there is a reason to.
Well, in my case since I have to maintain a LOWER PH (7.2) because of my high calcium would it make sense for me drive my TA to 70? that way, it will be a bit easier to maintain a Lower PH? But, I was reviewing my logs and it seemed that even when TA was at 70/80...PH still wanted to rise fast (.2 every day). OR should I just leave TA alone and accept the fact that I will just need to add MA every day or every other day to maintain 7.2?
It's just weird...because I see some test Logs where PH stays stable for 5-7 days...I'm jealous...lol!

I am going to go back and read my previous posts as well:) thank you in advance for any help you can provide.
 
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What is the pH, TA and CH of your fill water?

With the evaporation you have and adding fill water that is high TA you can’t win. You can drive down your TA to 60 and it will rise due to your high TA fill water.

You are on the right track but your fill water is derailing you.
 
Thanks:) It is good to know I am on the right track...even if I can't stay on it....lol!


Fill Water :
PH = 7.0
TA = 180
CH = 280-300**

So, yeah my fill water is not helping.....

So basically, when you combine all of my factors, the conclusion is adding MA every day or every other day is what my pool needs. Getting TA to 70 will help maintain a lower PH (which I need to do do because of my high CH), but it won't be the ultimate fix. Also, with constant rising TA...adding MA every day or every other day probably isn't a bad thing.

**EDITED TO UPDATE : CH of fill water is 280-300 (I had originally put 380-400)
 
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That TA 180 fill water plus your evaporation will keep you from getting your TA down and staying there.
 
Ok...I have gone back and reread several discussions about CH, TA & PH....and it refreshed my memory...lol!

My CH has risen from 700 TO 1025 (325 ppm increase) in three months and is now well beyond the accepted range.

So, the TA & PH ranges that worked 3 months ago, no longer work.

I now have to aim for a lower PH & TA in order to keep the scaling at bay and CSI in check, because my CH is now EXTREMELY high.

So, for my pool right now, I need to aim for:
PH = 7.2*
TA = 60 to 70

*If history is any indication, my PH will probably still rise about .2 EACH day...so I will be adding about 20 ounces of MA each day.
This daily addition of MA should also help keep my TA stable (as the fill water is causing it to rise).

Once I refill my pool and get the CH down...then my ideal PH & TA ranges will change.

thank you for letting me "think" out loud:)
 
AmyCJeff said:
Ok...I have gone back and reread several discussions about CH, TA & PH....and it refreshed my memory...lol!

My CH has risen from 700 TO 1025 (325 ppm increase) in three months and is now well beyond the accepted range.

So, the TA & PH ranges that worked 3 months ago, no longer work.

I now have to aim for a lower PH & TA in order to keep the scaling at bay and CSI in check, because my CH is now EXTREMELY high.

So, for my pool right now, I need to aim for:
PH = 7.2*
TA = 60 to 70

*If history is any indication, my PH will probably still rise about .2 EACH day...so I will be adding about 20 ounces of MA each day.
This daily addition of MA should also help keep my TA stable (as the fill water is causing it to rise).

Once I refill my pool and get the CH down...then my ideal PH & TA ranges will change.

thank you for letting me "think" out loud:)
Click to expand...
The TA is fine down to 50ppm. Realistically you need to fill with softened water as it’s probably not great idea to dump water so often in desert climate.
 
Ok...I just messed up!
Last night after I got my PH to 7.2 I added enough Chlorine to take FC = 12

Problem is, I started my aeration process this morning to work on getting TA down. Stupid me took a PH after aerating for an hour and it registered 8.0. So, I added enough MA to get it to 7.0....which was about 72 ounces!

PROBLEM IS....I completely forgot that when FC is above 10....PH tests don't work....

So, my PH is probably well below 7.0 right now (probably 6.3ish).
I just tested and FC = 10.5 right now.
I am going to keep the aeration process going to drive PH up. I was going to test in 3 hrs in hopes that FC drops below 10 and I can get an accurate PH read. Hoping PH is close to 6.8

Or have I created a major mess and I need to do something drastic and ASAP to get the PH up?
 
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Mdragger88 said:
If your fill water ch is 300 then why was your ch after a complete drain & refill 700?
I am confused 🫤
Click to expand...
Well:
- I was starting with CH = 1600
- Then, I didn't drain the last 500 galloons of water in the spa (so that was 500 galloons with CH = 1600, that got mixed in when new water)
- Then, for about 6 hours I was not using a bucket to SLOWLY refill the pool. So, I got a bit of mixture of old water/new water...ekk!
It was my first time doing the refill process...I definitely learned a few things and the next time will be much better.
 
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For your next drain/refill - in a month or two when the temps cool down - drain the spa into the pool first.

As the spa is draining, rinse down tbe spa walls.
Once the spa is rinsed and drained, start draining the pool.
Refill the spa while the pool is still draining.
As the pool is draining, risnse down the walls.
Once the pool is fully rinsed and drained, start refilling.

You don't need a bucket to slowly refill the pool. Just toss the hose in to the pool (multiple hoses from different spigots make it go SLIGHTY faster). Since you are draining all the water, there is no mixing of old with new.

Seriously consider adding a water softener. A whole house water softener (treats all water inside the house too) would be best. There are also RV sized water softeners, but they need manual regeneration. If you do get a whole house softener, get large enough so it isn't constantly regenerating. Maybe one in the 64,000 grain range. And be sure the autofill is plumbed to deliver softened water to the pool.

For my pool, 2 drain/refill ago resulted in an ending CH of 150 ppm higher than my fill water CH (no rinsing). Last drain the difference was about 25 ppm (rinsing). The only difference was rinsing as I was draining.
 
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proavia said:
For your next drain/refill - in a month or two when the temps cool down - drain the spa into the pool first.

As the spa is draining, rinse down tbe spa walls.
Once the spa is rinsed and drained, start draining the pool.
Refill the spa while the pool is still draining.
As the pool is draining, risnse down the walls.
Once the pool is fully rinsed and drained, start refilling.

You don't need a bucket to slowly refill the pool. Just toss the hose in to the pool (multiple hoses from different spigots make it go SLIGHTY faster). Since you are draining all the water, there is no mixing of old with new.

Seriously consider adding a water softener. A whole house water softener (treats all water inside the house too) would be best. There are also RV sized water softeners, but they need manual regeneration. If you do get a whole house softener, get large enough so it isn't constantly regenerating. Maybe one in the 64,000 grain range. And be sure the autofill is plumbed to deliver softened water to the pool.

For my pool, 2 drain/refill ago resulted in an ending CH of 150 ppm higher than my fill water CH (no rinsing). Last drain the difference was about 25 ppm (rinsing). The only difference was rinsing as I was draining.
Click to expand...
Thank you for that detailed response! I will definitely keep that in mind when I do my refill. I was attempting to NOT drain my pool completely before refilling the first go around....since it was JUNE and already hot and the sun shining ALL day:) But this might be a good option in the winter.
 
AmyCJeff said:
Thank you for that detailed response! I will definitely keep that in mind when I do my refill. I was attempting to NOT drain my pool completely before refilling the first go around....since it was JUNE and already hot and the sun shining ALL day:) But this might be a good option in the winter.
Click to expand...
If you want to get you CH as low as possible given your fill water CH, a FULL drain/refill is needed.
Of course, anytime between May and October usually isn't a good time do to the heat.

Given the evaporation rate in the Las Vegas area, chances are you evaporate 1 to 2 times your pool volume yearly, if not more. The CYA, salt, CH and a few other dissolved solids do NOT evaporate when the water does. They remain in the pool and continue to increase.

Look into a water softener option. A whole house water softener will provide soft water to all interior water fixtures (except possibly the cold water at the kitchen sink - if house is pre-plumbed with a water softener loop). A whole house water softener can provide benefits in addition to keeping your pool CH under control.
www.energy.gov

Reasons Every Home Should Have a Water Softener

If you are going to make an investment in a product, you should know exactly what is in it for you. That is why it is important to understand the benefits of a water softener and having soft water.
www.energy.gov www.energy.gov
If you consider one, post here and ask if what a vendor proposes will work for your application.
 
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Just a little update...perhaps at the very least to provide encouragement for others:) I was able to get my TA down to 60 (was at 100) and have been able to slow my Ph rise a tad. I have to say....my water is looking CRYSTAL CRYSTAL clear! It's great side effect, now that I am maintaining the proper PH and TA's levels to counterbalance my high CH. yay!
 
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Ok...I am soo excited that I had to share!!! Only fellow TFP users can appreciate this:)

I think I have FINALLY figured out how to manage my PH. Historically I was trying to manage too low of PH and too high of TA.
My PH was rising .2-.4 DAILY and I was adding a TON of MA
I was aiming for low PH in hopes of getting a negative CSI to deal with some calcium buildup/staining on my plaster.
Well, I FINALLY realized that my CH is just too high to do that right now. I just need to aim for CSI of 0.

Well, now that I got my TA down to 50 and referring to the PH/TA equilibrium chart....I have found that aiming for PH = 7.6 my PH only rose .2 over TWO DAYs...yay! I am only adding 6-8 ounces of MA every couple of days. I can't aim any higher for PH since my CH is 1025...any higher then the CSI gets too positive.

I think I have finally figured out my Pool....as least as far as PH is concerned:)
 
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Ok..so if anyone is still following along...I have a question: I have been checking my PH everyday for last 6 days just to see how steady it is:

9/18 - PH = 7.6 (added enough MA to get to 7.4)
9/19 - DID NOT TEST
9/20 - PH = 7.6 (rose .2 in TWO days)
9/21 - PH = 7.6 (rose 0)
9/22 -PH 7.6 (rose 0)
9/23 - PH 8.0 (rose .4 in ONE day)

I know most people only check Ph about every 3-4 days, so most don't track the DAILY rise....

But is is normal to have Erratic rise like that? Meaning, it goes several days with ZERO rise, then in one day rises .4?

I guess I was assuming the PH rise happens "consistently" day to day, but maybe not?
No other conditioned changed...

I should note that I do have ONE 3 inch (8 ounce) puck in my pool to help maintain CYA (I test for CYA every few weeks). it is about 60-70% dissolved right now and according to pool math the puck will have a total impact of + .2 PH to my pool.

I am asking more out curiosity more than anything else:)
- I feel that +.6 over 5 days is not bad
- This means I am adding 19 ounces of MA every 5 days (going from 8.0 to 7.4)
- 128 ounces every 33 days
 

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