So you want to add borates to your pool--Why and How

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So couple of thoughts after two nights swimming at 50 ppm borates....

No comment yet on sparklely, not seen it in the sun.

Under water in cloudy weather with mask on its crystal clear, but it normally is.

Skin on skin contact like wrestling is super slick, slippery even.

My hard cracked heels are soft over night after 1 hour swimming.

Opening eyes under water vision is blurrier than I remember pre borates.

NO change in smell or taste detected.

No change in skin feeling after swimming other than softer cracked dried out feet....

Again all this could just be in my head...
 
I came across this thread yesterday and decided to give borates a try. After some consideration, I decided to order a 25 lb bucket of granular boric acid from DudaDiesel, as the cost was only marginally higher than going with 20 Team Mule and muriatic acid, and seems a heck of a lot easier.

A few questions:

The advice in this thread stresses the importance of lowering TA before adding borates. Is this only true for Borax / MA, or also for boric acid? I've been working on lowering my TA over the last week, and I've gotten it from 150 down to 100. Do I still need to keep working on it? My pH is relatively stable.

According to the pool calculator, I need to add 22 lbs of boric acid to reach 50 PPM. Since I have a 25 lb bucket, is there anything I can do with the remaining 3 lbs? According to pool calculator, adding all 25 lbs will take me to 57 PPM. Is there any reason why I shouldn't just dump the whole thing in the pool so I don't have to worry about a nearly empty bucket sitting around in my garage?

Why is this information not included in Pool School? Because it's optional?
 
Lowering TA applies to either method of raising the borate level.

The problem with leaving TA high is the it is more difficult to move it after the Borates are in, though still possible.

No harm dumping it all in, it won't raise the level much higher, but I would save it for later.

thehowheels said:
Why is this information not included in Pool School? Because it's optional?
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Yes, it is not required for a tfp...but I sure like borates in mine. Since I have started using them I haven't had to acid wash my swg cell (I have high CH in my well [fill] water) and my ph only needs adjustment at the beginning of the seaon.
 
linen said:
Lowering TA applies to either method of raising the borate level.

The problem with leaving TA high is the it is more difficult to move it after the Borates are in, though still possible.
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I'm going to keep working at the TA this weekend. I'm sure I'll be able to get it down some more before my boric acid arrives, but the rate is definitely going more slowly now that I'm at the 100 TA level.

linen said:
Yes, it is not required for a tfp...but I sure like borates in mine. Since I have started using them I haven't had to acid wash my swg cell (I have high CH in my well [fill] water) and my ph only needs adjustment at the beginning of the seaon.
Click to expand...

That sounds like even less trouble than trouble-free to me :mrgreen:
 
JasonLion said:
Granular is much easier to handle, though the powdered form will work. The most cost effective option for boric acid in most parts of the country is DudaDiesel's 55 lb tub. Occasionally they offer a better price on eBay.

Borax is about $5/box where I am, and muriatic acid is $5.50/gallon. Prices vary somewhat by location, even from the same chain.

I've never noticed any taste from adding borates.
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Having a hard time finding out where I can get Muriatic Acid from. When I search, all I find is the Diluted "Green" version? Any idea's on where to find it lately?
Thanks
 
So finally we got a break in the weather and i through the Polaris in the pool. Got some pics of the new borated water. Not positive but i don't think it looks any different. I mean it looks good, but different i'm not so sure....





 
Well, I decided to open and do borates this year. Here is the aftermath:



and the results:



Here are my thoughts:

  • 1. Overall, it was inexpensive. 11 boxes of borax and 3 gallons of MA for a total of $55.15
  • 2. Simple to do. Really no TA adjustment needed for me. I opened to near perfect water. It only needed a little salt and CYA due to overflow from winter rains. After shutting off my SWG in November, I only used a total of a gallon and a half of bleach to maintain over the winter
  • 3. I think my water is a little less turquoise and more gray/blue with a little more shimmer (maybe a bit more "prism" effect)
  • 4. pH holds pretty steady. It has been creeping up much slower than it normally does with the SWG
  • 5. The Pool Calculator was dead-on for amounts
  • 6. Maybe a slight change in feel of the water (already feels good because of the salt)
  • 7. No noticeable taste difference in the water

So far so good. As the season progresses, if it is successful in keeping my pH from creeping up too fast then it is worth it for just that aspect alone.
 

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So I am thinking I am close to being able to add Borax. Here are my numbers. CH only thing I am concerned about... Thoughts?

FC 2.5
PH 7.5
Salt 3300
CYA 50
CH 430 (retest later to see if I made a mistake)
TA 80

Thanks for the advice.



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It's not a harsh chemical (only mildly acidic) so if you want to dump it and then use your brush to mix it you can. I usually just add it slowly over a return flow in the deep end and then afterwards use a brush to stir up the relatively small amount that settled to the bottom of the pool. At that point, it's mixed. With decent circulation, it should get everywhere in the pool in 10 minutes or so. Make sure your pump is running and you might want to put it on a higher speed if you are in a rush, though unless you plan to use the pool immediately there's no problem using a lower speed. Within a half-hour even at low speed, it should be fairly well distributed.
 
I poured 25 lbs of granular boric acid in the pool. I broadcasted it by pouring as I walked around the perimeter. The majority of it dissolved immediately, but there were a few chunks visible on the bottom of the pool, as well as what appeared to be a fine dust at the bottom. I walked around the pool twice, scrubbing with my brush, for about 10 minutes total. By that time, all of the boric acid was completely dissolved.

It's been nearly a week since I put the borates in. My observations so far:
The water is noticeably softer. As others have reported, it feels a bit slicker on the skin.
My pH has held steady despite 2 days of hot tub use over the weekend.
My chlorine consumption rate has dropped by as much as 50% per day(!!).
In the past month, I've been averaging 2 PPM chlorine consumption over the day. After adding borates, it dropped to 1 PPM. Over the weekend, even with above-average bather load and hot temperatures (high 90's), FC only dropped 1.5 by the end of the day.
I don't notice much, if any, difference in the appearance of the water.
 
thehowheels said:
My chlorine consumption rate has dropped by as much as 50% per day(!!).
In the past month, I've been averaging 2 PPM chlorine consumption over the day. After adding borates, it dropped to 1 PPM. Over the weekend, even with above-average bather load and hot temperatures (high 90's), FC only dropped 1.5 by the end of the day.
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It sounds like perhaps you had a low-grade algae problem that was consuming chlorine and that the borates, which are a mild algaecide, helped with that. If your FC/CYA levels were always good, then perhaps circulation was poor in some areas. Or it could be a coincidence if the weather (amount of direct sunlight) has changed recently.
 
My levels:
CYA: 40
Target FC: 5.0

Before borates, my FC would be down to 2.5 if we use the pool, 3.0 if we don't, CC 0 (occasionally I'd see 0.5)
After borates, my FC is down to 3.5 if we use the pool, 4.0 if we don't. I haven't seen any CC since adding borates.

Direct sunlight has not changed in the last week, but it's been about 20 degrees hotter in the last 4 days than average.

Circulation is good I think. I currently have the pump running for 2 cycles, 2.5 hours each. Unsure of GPM, but if I had to ballpark, I'd say it was at least double the speed of the 45 GPM submersible pump I rented from Home Depot. I'd guess I'm getting at least 2 turnovers per day. Filter pressure has been steady at 11 PSI over 10 PSI baseline.

I've been running an ONCL test every couple of days, and have not seen any drop over night, before or after borates.

But I share your skepticism. I don't think 1 week is enough to tell for sure what's going on.
 
exceltoexcel said:
http://www.soapgoods.com/Borax-Granular-p-592.html cheap borox in 50 lbs!
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That is a link to Borax, and would still need the Muriatic Acid to correct ph. Once you work out how much you need plus shipping plus the MA needed you are better off just ordering straight Boric Acid from dudadiesel. The site you linked to also has boric acid, but it is more expensive then dudadiesel. I was assuming 55 lbs and shipping to MN for these comparisons.
 

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