Skimmer Suction Air Leak - Hypothetical?

[mas985]

Testing with the pump inline is problematic for either test because if it leaks, you don't know if it is the lid or not and the lid is really a weak spot.

If the suction side plumbing can be isolated, then pressure or suction test should work fine.

A plug in the pump inlet could isolate the suction line and a fitting in the skimmer could pressurize the line.

 

[Texas Splash]

One more thought that I had mentioned in a previous post. Pump basket lids aren't really made to seal well under pressure so that may leak if it is part of the measurement.

I'm not including the pump in my pressure test. Only the suction line from the skimmer to the check valve.

I was hoping to have good results today, but my equipment was giving me a fit. Couldn't get the blow through plug to stay in. Grrrrrrr.

 

[Texas Splash]

Back at it today, but not with the results I had hoped for. Yesterday I couldn't get the blow-thru plug to stay in the skimmer consistently, and I found that my T-Seal bladder wasn't staying in place on the pad end. Started over today with this new stand-pipe extension I made last night. This worked great to ensure the 2" blow-thru plug was firmly seated and made it easier to work in the skimmer.







Unfortunately, in no time at all I could see a drop in pressure from 15 psi. Just like several industry leak detection videos, it was very obvious. Not sure why it wasn't quite as evident yesterday, but the drop was obvious in just a few seconds. My plug connection at the new skimmer standpipe extension and bladder plug at the equipment pad looked good.

 

[Texas Splash]

Here's what doesn't make sense. After that test, I removed all teh test equipment and put the (new) check valve back together. Started the pump and like before, it took its slow time to get all the air out of the pot, but once it did, it hasn't dropped nearly as much as before I started the testing.

In this pic the air is that small hazy area. That's all. If it was like this from the start, I'd never started all this testing. So now I'm really confused. I wonder if there is a small break and the water pressure testing pushed water and junk around closing up the suction leak a bit. I'm not done, just more confused. I'm gonna crack the code on this joker.

 

[mas985]

Pressure testing on new plumbing is much easier so I understand your frustration. It is sometimes difficult to get a good seal on old plumbing and even if you did and see the pressure drop, you can never be a 100% certain that it was the setup or the plumbing. That is why I am not a big fan of pressure testing old plumbing.

Have you tried the high speed filter air test?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Agreed with Mark on pressure testing. Your rig could be affecting the results of there is a slight leak there. Typically you want to use SNOOP on every connection to look for small leaks. Liquid hand soap and water works too but SNOOP makes really high quality bubbles.

 

[JamesW]

Use this on your lid and you will not see and more air bubbles in your pump basket.

 

[Texas Splash]

Have you tried the high speed filter air test?

I'm not familiar with that one. Can you explain?

 

[mas985]

Put the pump on high speed, purge the filter, wait 10 minutes, repurge. If air comes out the second time, it is a leak at both high and low speeds. If no air comes out, it could be outgasing or a bad pump lid seal on low.

 

[Texas Splash]

. If no air comes out, it could be outgasing or a bad pump lid seal on low.

Okay, no air came out. I even tried it twice. New pump of course and o-ring lubed really well.

I may not be concerned except today's pressure test really dropped. Makes me wonder if that extension I made for the blow-thru plug allowed pressure to slip out from the threads in the skimmer hole. I added some teflon tape, but who knows.

 

[Texas Splash]

I may try another pressure test tomorrow if I can. San Antonio weather going in the toilet the next couple of days.

 

[mas985]

If you are not getting any air in the filter on high speed, then I think the plumbing is fine. If there was any plumbing air leak it should show up on high speed.

Even though it is a new pump, the fact that there is an air leak on low speed but not high points toward the pump lid. I think a lot pump lid designs do not do well under low suction (i.e. low RPM).

Have you tried the pour over method or shaving cream test on low speed?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Maybe they should manufacture the pump wet ends with a groove for the o-ring to sit in and the lid has the flat surface. That way a good slathering of silicone grease would seal it all up.

 

[Texas Splash]

Have you tried the pour over method or shaving cream test on low speed?

Honestly no. Being new, I just assumed it was a quality product. Ha. To be safe, I'll try it tomorrow morning. Even new, that Hayward lid is frustrating to say the least.

Not sure if I mentioned this before, and it might just be my imagination, but once the pot is fully primed and crystal clear at first, it seems like I see very (very) tiny air bubbles flowing in through the inlet. Bubbles tinier than what you might see from an SWG. Again, maybe just my imagination or eyesight, but I'll try the test and see if I can ID anything else tomorrow.

Of course the previous Waterway Supreme started getting more air in the pot this season which is what drove me to try the new pump and replace the pad valves. Just driving me nuts.

Much appreciated Mark.

 

[Texas Splash]

I forgot to mention how I entertained myself today after the initial pressure testing. Yep, I decided to dig up the last section of flex line - just in case. As such, this evening is sponsored by pain killers and Dos XX.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Nice of them to lay the electrical conduit OVER the plumbing . Why is it pool builders can never just do the right thing … seriously, make the trench wider and lay them all side by side, it’s not that hard ….

 

[Texas Splash]

Nice of them to lay the electrical conduit OVER the plumbing . Why is it pool builders can never just do the right thing … seriously, make the trench wider and lay them all side by side, it’s not that hard ….

Exactly! Even my wife said, WT......?

 

[JamesW]

Nice of them to lay the electrical conduit OVER the plumbing . Why is it pool builders can never just do the right thing … seriously, make the trench wider and lay them all side by side, it’s not that hard ….

Well, you see, the reason we did that was to protect the pipes from any damage due to people digging since the pipe is flex PVC and it needs extra protection.

Also, we kept the ditch narrow to avoid damaging nearby utilities.

Also, we saved you a lot of money because digging a wider ditch would take longer and cost more.

So, really, you should be thanking us.

 

[Texas Splash]

Mark, the pump lid testing showed no improvement. I was going to try a couple more pressure tests today, but our weather is still a mess. I'll try a couple more things as soon as the weather breaks.

 

[Texas Splash]

Since I'm on weather hold, I had enough time to confirm distance details from skimmer to pump in case it pertains to my situation. The Waterway showed similar symptoms as the Hayward, but was 100% water tight in the pump pot when I ran it next to the pool.