I'm in the process of having a vanishing edge pool built in Florida. I would prefer to not have a skimmer since the vanishing edge acts as a skimmer and all of the water will be pushing that way anyhow. However, an engineer says it is code on a residential pool to have a skimmer even when it's a vanishing edge pool. Does anyone know if that is actually true and the specific code that demands it?
Skimmer Requirements on Vanishing Edge Pool
- Thread starter mjkat
- Start date
Never seen a code requiring that. There is no need for a skimmer.
Ask your engineer to show you the code
Ask your engineer to show you the code
He is likely looking at an old a-nsi 7 standard which has skimmer requirements based on sq footage & no provision for vanishing edge. Standards aren’t codes, check with your jurisdiction.
I would recommend having skimmers. They will still be beneficial.
Local code might require skimmers or a perimeter overflow system.
https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/document/ISPSC2015/chapter-3-general-compliance
http://www.floridabuilding.org/fbc/commission/FBC_0506/Education_POC/a2_/0-OUTLINE-FBCPoolsoutline_timeline.pdf
Local code might require skimmers or a perimeter overflow system.
https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/document/ISPSC2015/chapter-3-general-compliance
http://www.floridabuilding.org/fbc/commission/FBC_0506/Education_POC/a2_/0-OUTLINE-FBCPoolsoutline_timeline.pdf
- May 3, 2007
- 17,069
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I would make the argument that a vanishing edge is basically a very large skimmer (i.e. performs the same function). Adding a standard skimmer will take flow rate away from the vanishing edge which means that you have to have that much more flow rate (and energy) to support both the skimmer and the vanishing edge.
If they are going to use separate pumps for the filtration and the infinity edge, then it won't make any difference.
If they are going to use a single pump for both, then you could just use the edge as a skimmer.
The problem with using the edge as a skimmer is that the floating debris will end up in the catch basin and clog up the main drains in the catch basin.
You really need skimmers to help catch leaves and other floating debris.
I recommend that there be 2 skimmers. Skimmers can be run at fairly low flow and still be effective.
So, even if you have one pump, it's worthwhile to have skimmers.
Also, if the code requires skimmers, then you have to use skimmers unless you can get approval for the variance.
If they are going to use a single pump for both, then you could just use the edge as a skimmer.
The problem with using the edge as a skimmer is that the floating debris will end up in the catch basin and clog up the main drains in the catch basin.
You really need skimmers to help catch leaves and other floating debris.
I recommend that there be 2 skimmers. Skimmers can be run at fairly low flow and still be effective.
So, even if you have one pump, it's worthwhile to have skimmers.
Also, if the code requires skimmers, then you have to use skimmers unless you can get approval for the variance.
Good post JamesW.
A second pump for Skimming when edge is dormant, will save some headaches & a possible overflow of basin.
A second pump for Skimming when edge is dormant, will save some headaches & a possible overflow of basin.
- May 3, 2007
- 17,069
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
The flow over edge is going to dominate the movement of the debris on the surface so the skimmers are going to be all but useless.
The flow only speeds up near the edge. Most of the water surface will not be moving. It's a similar effect to how a main drain works, the water speed only significantly increases near the edge.
Skimmers will be as effective as in any other pool.
The wind will be the primary driver of surface debris.
Wind typically pushes debris away from the infinity edge due to the design of the pool.
The edge usually faces open spaces, such as water while the opposite side is usually near the house.
This creates air flow that usually favors flow away from the edge.
The main drains in the catch basin can quickly get clogged by debris because main drains don't handle debris well.
Also, it seems that Florida code requires 1 skimmer per 800 square ft of pool surface area.
Skimmers will be as effective as in any other pool.
The wind will be the primary driver of surface debris.
Wind typically pushes debris away from the infinity edge due to the design of the pool.
The edge usually faces open spaces, such as water while the opposite side is usually near the house.
This creates air flow that usually favors flow away from the edge.
The main drains in the catch basin can quickly get clogged by debris because main drains don't handle debris well.
Also, it seems that Florida code requires 1 skimmer per 800 square ft of pool surface area.
- May 3, 2007
- 17,069
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Really? I see the water moving all the time on the surface of my pool. Isn't that the point of skimming to get the debris to move on the surface.
I don't see how that is possible. The debris capture is proportional to the flow rate to each.The flow rate to the skimmers is going to be much less than the edge so proportionally the edge will capture much more debris. You would need to have much higher flow rate to the skimmers than the edge for the skimmers to be more effective.
Wind is generally dominate from one or two directions but it doesn't mean those directions are lined up with the edge.
Not if it is designed properly. You can use grate system similar to a pool gutter to prevent clogging.
Also, all the infinity pools that I have seen, I don't believe I have ever seen one with a skimmer. Do you have a picture of a infinity pool with skimmers? I did a quick search of infinity pools on the web and did not see any with skimmers but I did not look through all the pictures.
Infinity pool - Ïîèñê â Google
I don't think most are built with skimmers.
Here are a few references.
Wind can blow from any direction, although it usually has a dominant direction. The surface movement is mostly due to wind.
Ideally skimmers are placed where the wind will push the debris close enough for the skimmer to get the debris.
Debris has to get fairly close to a skimmer for the debris to be pulled in.
- May 3, 2007
- 17,069
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
In both of those designs, the infinity wall is small compared the perimeter of the pool so it might make some sense in those applications. But in most of the infinity pools that I have seen in person, the walls were quite large and those did not have skimmers. In most cases though, I still don't see how the skimmers would be that effective unless you redirect a lot of the flow to the skimmer.
A lot depends on the wind direction.
Also, most people don't run the infinity edge all the time.
Typically, people just run the edge when they want the visual effect or when people are using the pool to compensate for water splashed over the edge.
While the edge is off, the skimmers can be used like in a normal pool.
In any case, I think that it would be beneficial to have skimmers.
Also, most people don't run the infinity edge all the time.
Typically, people just run the edge when they want the visual effect or when people are using the pool to compensate for water splashed over the edge.
While the edge is off, the skimmers can be used like in a normal pool.
In any case, I think that it would be beneficial to have skimmers.
- May 3, 2007
- 17,069
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
That I can agree with although some of the references you posted also say you need to keep the wall wet all the time to prevent scaling (and salt if a SWG pool) which probably means at least daytime running. If that is the case, then I don't see much run time without using the wall.
OP is just looking to validate his engineers code comments..
As an aside, look to G- 3 publications you want read best practices.
As an aside, look to G- 3 publications you want read best practices.
If you do decide not to use skimmers, you should avoid using a DE filter because you won't have a good way to add DE.
- Jan 4, 2016
- 5,293
- Pool Size
- 44000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
If it were mine, I'd insist on skimmer(s). I can't hope to know all the reasons I might encounter, but these would be enough for me:
1. I would not want to move water 24/7, so it would be built to handle not running
2. I would want to be able to heat the water quicker or cheaper than I could with the added evaporation of the VE
3. I like sand filtration, supplemented with a little DE, and a skimmer is a handy way to add the DE
4. There might be times I want to reduce noise
5. There might be times I want to slow down pH creep
6. Skimmers are easy to clean
7. Skimmers are cheap to add when building, and can be shut off if I change my mind. They're prohibitively expensive/disruptive to add later.
1. I would not want to move water 24/7, so it would be built to handle not running
2. I would want to be able to heat the water quicker or cheaper than I could with the added evaporation of the VE
3. I like sand filtration, supplemented with a little DE, and a skimmer is a handy way to add the DE
4. There might be times I want to reduce noise
5. There might be times I want to slow down pH creep
6. Skimmers are easy to clean
7. Skimmers are cheap to add when building, and can be shut off if I change my mind. They're prohibitively expensive/disruptive to add later.