Signed the contract this morning, New build Orange County, CA
- Thread starter Titan7
- Start date
Yes, that works just fine if it is planned correctly. My pool has the autofill on the opposite side of the pool from where it needed to drain. Oops. So, rather than plumb a drain line all the way around the pool we put in the tile line overflow grate.
We will have drains on both sides, so we are good, if it was a nice looking grate that would be a better option than what was installed. Brian, that's hilarious, but it would only be a 3" decent, lol.
My PB used the middle one on this page. Gray plastic, 2" pipe fitting.
http://www.pentairpool.com/products/white-goods-gutter-drains-65.htm
http://www.pentairpool.com/products/white-goods-gutter-drains-65.htm
Anything is possible. I knew of a guy that was going to jack hammer his new pool to get an extra 2". Adding those should be nothing!
- May 16, 2011
- 1,180
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I agree with the above posters on the coping. It looks great! I love the look of the natural stone, and you've got the added benefit that you're using such a hard stone. It will hold up well.
Thanks all for the opinions on the coping.
So finally met with the Geo/soils engineer, here is the recommendation for concrete on expansive soil:
1. Excavate 10" below grade
2. Place a vapor barrier over the native soil
3. Pour 4-6" of CAB road base (2" of sand would also help)
4. Rebar 24" OC.
5. 10ft MAX joints and use of construction joints, not control joints. Slip dowels would also be helpful.
6. Use a 3500PSI Proper mix concrete with no additional water added.
In the end he said with concrete three things will happen:
1. It will be grey
2. It will be hard
3. It will crack.
With the recommendation above we stand the best chance of no badly cracked concrete, there are other options but they really get beyond the budgets of home improvement projects.
So finally met with the Geo/soils engineer, here is the recommendation for concrete on expansive soil:
1. Excavate 10" below grade
2. Place a vapor barrier over the native soil
3. Pour 4-6" of CAB road base (2" of sand would also help)
4. Rebar 24" OC.
5. 10ft MAX joints and use of construction joints, not control joints. Slip dowels would also be helpful.
6. Use a 3500PSI Proper mix concrete with no additional water added.
In the end he said with concrete three things will happen:
1. It will be grey
2. It will be hard
3. It will crack.
With the recommendation above we stand the best chance of no badly cracked concrete, there are other options but they really get beyond the budgets of home improvement projects.
If you're worried about cracks then pavers are really the best option if properly installed.
Take the following as face value only out of fear of future chastisement and because I am not a professional.
There comes a point when expectation and expense exceed practicality. The recommendation you stated above will no doubt yield great results, but even with that spec and every other foreseeable precaution taken, you may still end up with a crack or two. You seem understanding of this as you should be. If cracks are understandable and come with the territory, then really what is the concern with your soil?
Take a look at your driveway. It was no doubt poured on top of the same soil that you have in the back yard with no road base, no rebar, and minimal compaction. How does it look? The garage floor is more than likely 4" thick with either #3 rebar 24" O.C. or 8" WWM on top of a vapor barrier and 4" of sand/base. How does that look? The slab that your house sits on is similar to the garage floor. Is there heaving, separations or other issues? All of this of course assumes that you have a slab on grade foundation and a concrete driveway.
My point to all of this is that the deck around the pool will see less abuse than your driveway and your home's foundation - both of these were built on expansive soil. If it was that much of a concern then why not use 12" of base, a 12" thick deck with 3/4"-1" aggregate, 1/2" rebar at 6" O.C., and a true expansion joint in 8'squares? The expense is no longer practical for what your needs are.
My fear is that someone got in you head about your soil and has convinced you that you need to take action. I am not saying you don't but you have to draw the line somewhere. The biggest issue with expansive soil is moisture saturation. With good drainage, a solid base and the minimal rainfall that we receive, I don't really see any major issues that anyone anywhere else wouldn't also experience. The above mentioned prescription for your concrete deck is approaching the cost of correctly installed pavers, which I feel is what you really want and what was in the original design. Why not make a reasonable attempt at stabilizing your soil, provide good drainage, and ultimately end up with what you really wanted in the first place?
I stand by my beliefs that if your soil is extremely expansive, then pavers are the best option. What is everyone's fear with pavers?
- - - Updated - - -
If you do go with concrete, I previously recommended irregular and curved control joints. Reason being if you do get a crack (which hardly, if ever crack in a straight line), it can be cut with a crack chaser blade that matches the contour of your control joints an essentially blend in with the rest of the joints.
There comes a point when expectation and expense exceed practicality. The recommendation you stated above will no doubt yield great results, but even with that spec and every other foreseeable precaution taken, you may still end up with a crack or two. You seem understanding of this as you should be. If cracks are understandable and come with the territory, then really what is the concern with your soil?
Take a look at your driveway. It was no doubt poured on top of the same soil that you have in the back yard with no road base, no rebar, and minimal compaction. How does it look? The garage floor is more than likely 4" thick with either #3 rebar 24" O.C. or 8" WWM on top of a vapor barrier and 4" of sand/base. How does that look? The slab that your house sits on is similar to the garage floor. Is there heaving, separations or other issues? All of this of course assumes that you have a slab on grade foundation and a concrete driveway.
My point to all of this is that the deck around the pool will see less abuse than your driveway and your home's foundation - both of these were built on expansive soil. If it was that much of a concern then why not use 12" of base, a 12" thick deck with 3/4"-1" aggregate, 1/2" rebar at 6" O.C., and a true expansion joint in 8'squares? The expense is no longer practical for what your needs are.
My fear is that someone got in you head about your soil and has convinced you that you need to take action. I am not saying you don't but you have to draw the line somewhere. The biggest issue with expansive soil is moisture saturation. With good drainage, a solid base and the minimal rainfall that we receive, I don't really see any major issues that anyone anywhere else wouldn't also experience. The above mentioned prescription for your concrete deck is approaching the cost of correctly installed pavers, which I feel is what you really want and what was in the original design. Why not make a reasonable attempt at stabilizing your soil, provide good drainage, and ultimately end up with what you really wanted in the first place?
I stand by my beliefs that if your soil is extremely expansive, then pavers are the best option. What is everyone's fear with pavers?
- - - Updated - - -
If you do go with concrete, I previously recommended irregular and curved control joints. Reason being if you do get a crack (which hardly, if ever crack in a straight line), it can be cut with a crack chaser blade that matches the contour of your control joints an essentially blend in with the rest of the joints.
Agree with what you have said, yes, it's easy to loose focus on project like this. I guess I was attempting to "do the best thing", while I have a bit more than a basic understanding of what's happening I am by no means a professional in the trades. Thanks as always for your insight, sometimes I can get sucked into a deep hole overthinking this stuff. I will talk to the decking guy and see what the balance of best prep that is not cost prohibitive.
Hey, it is easy to overthink when you are spending lots of money. We have expansive clay soil here and the number one factor in keeping things stable is consistent moisture level. As Brian mentions drainage is key. But for us in droughts maintaining some moisture level is also important. Micro-irrigation or soaker hoses on a timer will mitigate most or all problems.
Lol, ain't that the truth! I only ask so many questions after learning the hard way on other projects. I assumed things would be done correctly, well in a few cases not, had to pay somebody else to fix it correctly. I guess the sting of that still weighes on me, so I attempt to learn all I can, sad state of affairs I guess when you can't trust the people doing the work to do it correctly. I have run into my share of similar issues on this project as well which makes me questions even more. Trust me, if you noticed the auto fill that I felt was installed at the incorrect height at the begining, and was told, trust us, we know what we are doing. Well its not at the correct height, as it is now it will be 1 inch + higher than the pool coping and deck, can you say tripping hazard as well as unsightly. I will need to be lowered to utilize the overflow function as well as eliminate the tripping hazard. I don't believe I am the only one with bad luck, I think many just blindly trust. Again all fixable, I only post this experience to help others avoid it, I know I read several posts about problems that help me to avoid similar issue with my project. I really am a pretty easy to get a long with, just do it correctly, that's what I do in my profession.
They are moving along well pool coping and tile is done, looks great, tomorrow they will finish the spa coping and tile and put the stone veneer on the spa and build the fire pit.
Agree with bdavis. I think somewhere along the way the soil was mentioned and panic set in. Some contractors will put this fear into customer who might not be well informed to steer that customer in a different direction. You could have 5 different contractors tell 6 different things. Soil analysts might be a little over kill for pool decking where foot traffic will be all you ever get.
Bdavis might not be a professional according to some but his advice sounds professional.
Bdavis might not be a professional according to some but his advice sounds professional.
I believe you and Brian are correct, I just got a bit caught up with it all. Six months from now a lot of this will be out of mind, well, most of it, lol!