Shaft Seal Leak on One-Year-Old IntelliFlo VSF
- Thread starter DavidArmenB
- Start date
-
- Tags
- intelliflo leak pentair seal shaft seal
- Sep 7, 2022
- 259
- Pool Size
- 16500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I’m 100% certain it didn’t run dry in the one day that I ran it with this seal, before I saw the leak and disassembled the pump again.
How possible is it that I got a fake seal kit? Do those even exist?
Sorry, new impeller time. The seal overheated for some reason (likely the pump ran dry, clogged basket somewhere, etc.), and the impeller plastic softened. The pressure from the bellows (spring) portion forced the ceramic deeper into the seal cup and caused that bulge. Have seen it many, many times.
Didn't run dry that one time, but probably did on another occasion, and for a longer time, to cause that heat damage to the impeller. That damage is always caused by heat.
Its not a defective impeller, a bad seal, or a "fake" seal. No, there are no "fake" seals, but there are different qualities, though the "standard" seal that came with that pump, a PS-1000, is as long-lasting as any of the others I've used in 3+ decades of doing this work. Different brands look slightly different. The grey on the ceramic is normal after a seal has been in use even a short time, they are "wear" items.
Good that you caught it before it damaged a very expensive motor. There doesn't look to be any corrosion on the front end bell, which is a very good sign.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,440
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The seal looks odd to me.
It looks like a cheap seal.
Maybe check with Pentair to see if it is a real Pentair seal.
There are a lot of fake products coming out of China now and anything can be faked.
It looks like a cheap seal.
Maybe check with Pentair to see if it is a real Pentair seal.
There are a lot of fake products coming out of China now and anything can be faked.
Pump Seals - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
Basic Seals[edit]
Basic seals have Buna Elastomers, a Phenolic (Plastic) Primary Ring and a Ceramic Seat. Theses are junk due to the primary ring composition.Ozone/Salt Seals[edit]
"Ozone/salt" seals have Viton Elastomers, a Carbon Primary Ring and a Polished Ceramic Seat. These are acceptable.Best Quality Seals[edit]
The best seals have Viton Elastomers, a Silicon Carbide Primary Ring and a Silicon Carbide Seat.The primary ring is what makes contact with the ceramic face.
Cheap seals use a plastic primary ring and they can wear down and leave a black mark on the white ceramic.
A good quality carbon primary ring will be much more durable than the plastic and it is much less likely to leave a black mark on the ceramic face.
Cheap seals use a plastic primary ring and they can wear down and leave a black mark on the white ceramic.
A good quality carbon primary ring will be much more durable than the plastic and it is much less likely to leave a black mark on the ceramic face.
- Sep 7, 2022
- 259
- Pool Size
- 16500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Yes it was brand new pure shiny white.
After replacing the corroded original seal and assembling the pump, I filled the pot with water and ran it, it primed within 20 seconds and started running fine. Came out and saw the leak four hours later. Turned off pump. Disassembled the pump (for the second time) the following morning and posted the photos of the new seal here.
The seal does not look right to me.
It looks like a cheap seal.
Contact Pentair and ask them if that is their seal.
It looks like a cheap seal.
Contact Pentair and ask them if that is their seal.
- Sep 7, 2022
- 259
- Pool Size
- 16500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Will do. I am also going to purchase yet another seal kit and a new impeller once the pool store opens. I will post photos of the brand new seal out of the box.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,440
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
This probably is obvious to all but it should be mentioned for followers of this thread that it is very important to keep those seal surfaces clean when installing them. Most instructions and tutorials I have seen suggest wiping both the ceramic and carbon surfaces clean with a lint free cloth and isopropyl alcohol. You should also be wearing latex gloves on your hands when handling them to avoid getting any skin oils on the seals. Even a fine bit of fiber from a cloth or shirt could keep the seals from properly mating. When applying the silicone lubricant/sealant to the Viton rubber boots, you need to be careful to make sure none of that gets on the sealing surfaces. I’d even go so far as to say the packaging they are enclosed in can easily shed dust/debris and so giving the surfaces a quick wipe with IPA is probably a good idea.
I’m not saying the OP isn’t being careful, just awareness for people reading this thread.
I’m not saying the OP isn’t being careful, just awareness for people reading this thread.
The primary ring is glued to the rest of the seal and the glue looks sloppy.
It does not look like a professionally made seal.
Can you scratch the surface to see how hard the primary ring is?
If it is plastic, it will feel like plastic.
Maybe take some shavings and see at what temperature they melt or burn.
Maybe use a flame on the shavings or slivers to see if the parts burn.
Plastic will probably burn/melt and carbon probably will not burn.
The cup part is usually stainless steel and this cup is black, which seems odd.
Try a magnet on the cup part and on the spring.
Can you find any writing on the parts at all?
Pentair does not make parts like this; they just contract it out to a company and maybe Pentair has chosen a bad subcontractor.
It does not look like a professionally made seal.
Can you scratch the surface to see how hard the primary ring is?
If it is plastic, it will feel like plastic.
Maybe take some shavings and see at what temperature they melt or burn.
Maybe use a flame on the shavings or slivers to see if the parts burn.
Plastic will probably burn/melt and carbon probably will not burn.
The cup part is usually stainless steel and this cup is black, which seems odd.
Try a magnet on the cup part and on the spring.
Can you find any writing on the parts at all?
Pentair does not make parts like this; they just contract it out to a company and maybe Pentair has chosen a bad subcontractor.
The glue is sloppy and the white part of the ceramic is too gray.
The gray indicates that the primary ring material has worn off and embedded into the ceramic, which is not going to happen with a good seal unless the seal ran dry for a long time.
The gray indicates that the primary ring material has worn off and embedded into the ceramic, which is not going to happen with a good seal unless the seal ran dry for a long time.
- Sep 7, 2022
- 259
- Pool Size
- 16500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
All the Salt/ozone resistant seals that come with the Pentair Seal Kit, P/N: 356198, have black cups.
Also, regarding the glue, about half the photos of all the seals that I saw online looked very similar to mine with regards to the glue being a bit too much, so I never gave it a second thought that my seal in original Pentair packaging would be bad quality!
Regardless, my latest theory is that it wasn’t the seal itself, but my impeller has deformed as a consequence of the failure of the original seal, which corroded and probably started heating up to high levels and softened the impeller seal seat, which is causing water to bypass the ceramic seal by going underneath and past it. I will know for sure once I purchase a new impeller today. Hopefully my local pool stores carry one in stock!
Also, I will perform those tests you mentioned and get back to you!
- Sep 7, 2022
- 259
- Pool Size
- 16500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
This is great advice! I watched numerous YouTube videos, including two made by Pentair before I tackled this project. I followed their guide step by step so I now suspect the seal itself wasn’t an issue. I posted photos of the impeller which shows bulging at three different locations around the circumference of the seal seat and inserting/ removing the new seal is very easy to do by hand, which tells me the rubber ring around the ceramic is not making good contact with the seal seat of the impeller.
The impeller is definitely deformed and it might be the cause of the leak.
The cup might be stainless with a black coating, but stainless typically does not need any type of coating, so it seems suspicious to me.
Maybe sand off the black to see what type of metal is under the black coating.
Also try the magnet.
A magnet will stick to some types of stainless, so it is not a definitive test.
The cup might be stainless with a black coating, but stainless typically does not need any type of coating, so it seems suspicious to me.
Maybe sand off the black to see what type of metal is under the black coating.
Also try the magnet.
A magnet will stick to some types of stainless, so it is not a definitive test.