Self-maintenance and SWCG Ramp Up Question(s!)

[GregoryRB]

Hello all. I'm new to the site and DIY'ing my pool. I'm reposting my self-introduction info below to explain how I got here and what I have.

To update the below, the PB's guy came out yesterday and got the SWCG powered back up. He said it was the power button. Like I didn't try the single toggle switch on the thing? Anyway, important thing is that it's back on.

While waiting for that to happen, and for our TF-Pro test kit to arrive (came yesterday as well), my wife took a sample to Pinch a Penny. I'm attaching those results. Mind you, this was mere days after the PB guy's last visit. FC and stabilizer 0? So she bought two containers of LC and two gallons of MA. We followed the directions except that I was thinking of one container of LC as a gallon, duh! So, we ended up adding about 3.5 gallons instead of 1.6! Total noob, or just generally dumb, move, yes.

Thus far I've only had a chance to do the block test. PH was looking good, seemingly in the 7.5 to 7.8 range. I find the CL/yellow much harder to gauge but it didn't look to be above the 3-6 ppm range.

And finally, my question! I was ready to put in 4 40lb bags of salt before heading to work this morning, to get things going (I think I'll need another 4 or 5 bags at about a 16k gallon pool). Okay, NOW my question, I swear. Why was the SWCG already showing 3000 ppm at the panel? I decided not to put in the salt, so not even a dash over the shoulder has gone into that pool yet. I did note that the PaP test showed 500 and I'm unclear as to why that would be, too. I know for a fact that the PB's guy didn't put any in. Are there any chemical combinations/conditions that create salt?

This is a Hayward AquaRite 9000 (does that mean it's a T-9??) with a TurboCell inline.

I'll get to real testing tomorrow or Saturday but am stumped by the current state of affairs. Any thoughts appreciated!

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[My intro thread]
Hi TFPers! Got here by way of Reddit and as you may be able to tell by my insta-support for TFP, I'm jumping in with both feet! I greatly appreciate what I've learned in the intro articles and videos already. We bought our Redington Beach, FL house back in 2013 and have been using a pool guy since but have decided to take the reins. Just ordered a TF-Pro kit and look forward to learning just what we're getting into!

Among other things out back, we just redid our circa 1992 in-ground pool with StoneScape mini pebble surfacing. We also installed an IntelliFlo VSF Pump with the ScreenLogic automation, and less than a year ago installed a Hayward SWG (should have done that a long time ago). Also have a Polaris EPIC 8642IQ that I absolutely love!

Anyway, our contractor's pool equipment install guy (who is also a local pool guy) was servicing the pool for 30 days post install and just finished up with that. Amazingly, only a few days later we're seeing algae in the tile grout lines (though the water itself still LOOKS perfect for whatever that's worth). I was ready to ramp up the SWG and the darn thing won't power on (tried all breakers etc.), so said pool guy is going to come out and take a look this week (he disconnected everything pre-project and installed the new equipment). That puts us in liquid chlorine/bleach limbo I guess.

Before(ish) and after photos attached. Not the most stylistic but you get the idea! The bump is a sheer descent water feature. Trying to figure out how many gallons we have, which is a bit tricky with that shape!

On top of all this, we're getting a Catalina spa delivered in a few weeks, which I'll also obviously be learning how to take care of.

Looking forward to learning more here, and hopefully tackling this beast!

 

[PoolStored]

Welcome to TFP!!!

Congrats on the pool and the test kit.

I would ignore the pool store testing. Trust your test kit, it is the gold standard.

Did you get the salt test kit too? You should test for salt in the pool. If you didn't, I'd get the salt test kit ordered. I wouldn't add salt until you get good test results.

When you get the full set of tests done, post up results here and we'll work through them with you!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Greg,

If you have ScreenLogic, it means that you most likely have an EasyTouch Automation system. So, I find it odd that you have a Hayward salt system and not a Pentair salt system.

Are the two system connected? Are you able to control your SWCG system through ScreenLogic?

Are your liquid chlorine bottle two gallons? If you really added 3.5 gallons of chlorine to your pool, that would have increased your FC to about 22 ppm.

Did you get the TF-Pro or the TF-Pro salt? Not a big deal either way, but you need the ability to test the salt in your pool water. So you either need to add a salt test to your TF-Pro or you need a Taylor K-1766 salt test kit. Knowing the 'actual' salt level in your pool water is very important first step when you have a SWCG.

We need to see your test report from your new test kit...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[GregoryRB]

Greg,

If you have ScreenLogic, it means that you most likely have an EasyTouch Automation system. So, I find it odd that you have a Hayward salt system and not a Pentair salt system.

Are the two system connected? Are you able to control your SWCG system through ScreenLogic?

Are your liquid chlorine bottle two gallons? If you really added 3.5 gallons of chlorine to your pool, that would have increased your FC to about 22 ppm.

Did you get the TF-Pro or the TF-Pro salt? Not a big deal either way, but you need the ability to test the salt in your pool water. So you either need to add a salt test to your TF-Pro or you need a Taylor K-1766 salt test kit. Knowing the 'actual' salt level in your pool water is very important first step when you have a SWCG.

We need to see your test report from your new test kit...

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim - The SWCG predates the pool renovation and Pentair system that was installed with it. We got the Hayward probably about a year ago. And no, the two don't talk to each other unfortunately. I have to go to the Hayward for anything, though that doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. That said, if it is feasible to marry up the two, I'd love to know that.

Sorry, I'm not home to look at them. Make that 2.5 gallon LC containers, so about 3.7 gallons were added.

I got the TF Pro Salt, so yes I'll be getting my first read on that likely tomorrow as well.

Welcome to TFP!!!

Congrats on the pool and the test kit.

I would ignore the pool store testing. Trust your test kit, it is the gold standard.

Did you get the salt test kit too? You should test for salt in the pool. If you didn't, I'd get the salt test kit ordered. I wouldn't add salt until you get good test results.

When you get the full set of tests done, post up results here and we'll work through them with you!

Thanks for the welcome! And thank you both for your initial thoughts. Will post up after I've got test kit results.

 

[Jimrahbe]

That said, if it is feasible to marry up the two, I'd love to know that.

Greg,

The first rule of automation is to make sure everything is the same brand, so that they can talk with each other..

That said, I 'think' the Hayward SWCG is one exception and that it can be controlled by an EasyTouch. After you take care of getting your pool water adjusted to where it needs to be, we should revisit this issue and see what we can do.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Bperry]

I did note that the PaP test showed 500 and I'm unclear as to why that would be, too. I know for a fact that the PB's guy didn't put any in. Are there any chemical combinations/conditions that create salt?

Liquid chlorine adds a little salt and so do some other things. 500ppm isn’t much but you might test your tap water as well (or whatever they filled your pool with) and see if it came from there. You were smart not to blindly throw in stuff without knowing.

 

[GregoryRB]

Greg,

The first rule of automation is to make sure everything is the same brand, so that they can talk with each other..

That said, I 'think' the Hayward SWCG is one exception and that it can be controlled by an EasyTouch. After you take care of getting your pool water adjusted to where it needs to be, we should revisit this issue and see what we can do.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Oh yes, definitely understood, but we basically had no choice in terms of brand with this PB and I wasn't that concerned. Come to think of it though, I believe he did mention a higher grade automation option that would have brought the SWCG into the mix, but it seemed prohibitively more expensive. Certainly worth looking into at some point, especially if there's a more reasonable solution.

Liquid chlorine adds a little salt and so do some other things. 500ppm isn’t much but you might test your tap water as well (or whatever they filled your pool with) and see if it came from there. You were smart not to blindly throw in stuff without knowing.

I filled it with one of our hose bibs. What I'm unsure of is whether it is on the treated side of the water softener. Since it taps off the kitchen, I have to believe it is. With the lack of rain around here, I've been putting a LOT of hose water in there too. So, yes, I was thinking I may need to test that water as well. I've been reading another thread here where the owner has a softener and thought I might have the same element (no pun intended) in play.

Thanks.

 

[GregoryRB]

Hi again. Okay, did my first test kit readings.

FC - 2.5 (at best - tricky to call it). Also did a block test and it was basically clear.
CC - 0? I did the FC test again before doing this one and couldn't even get to pink.
CH - 250
TA - 150 (Or higher? It was no longer green, but pink at 15, do I need to go true red?)
CYA - um, NFC (After two attempts, I could still see the dot down the tube at 30 ml, so...?)
PH - 8.2 (if not higher - pretty darn red)
SALT - 0 (definitely closer to that on the strip than 1k)

Guess I'm ready to crank up the SWCG tomorrow!

All thoughts appreciated.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Greg,

How are you going to power up the SWCG if your salt level is zero????

Why would the FC test be tricky? It goes from pink to clear?? What are you seeing?

The TA test... Once the color changes to red'ish, you keep adding drops as long as the color keeps changing, and you don't count the last drop that did not change the color.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[GregoryRB]

Greg,

How are you going to power up the SWCG if your salt level is zero????

Why would the FC test be tricky? It goes from pink to clear?? What are you seeing?

The TA test... Once the color changes to red'ish, you keep adding drops as long as the color keeps changing, and you don't count the last drop that did not change the color.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim -

Oh, I meant dump in my salt and then start up the SWCG. Any reason not to put in at least half the likely amount needed, to start?

Well, the first time I ran the FC test I wasn't sure I should have counted as high as 5, so I decided to do it a second time before doing the CC test even once. And I didn't even get to pink on the second FC test. If the block test had shown some yellow I'd think I was doing something wrong, but both tests seem to want to tell me that I'm got nothing for FC. I should also add that I had to do about an hour of hose filling today to raise the level about 3 inches (not that that tells you much).

On TA, okay, perhaps I stopped a bit too early then. I didn't do it until a drop failed to change the color. Good to know!

Thanks.

 

[Bperry]

FC - 2.5 (at best - tricky to call it). Also did a block test and it was basically clear.
CC - 0? I did the FC test again before doing this one and couldn't even get to pink.

Just to make sure, the CC test is a follow on test to the FC test. You add the powder to the water sample and it’ll turn pink. Then you adds drops until it’s clear which tells you what the chlorine level is. It shouldn’t be tricky to call. If it takes 5 drops to go from pink to clear, then your free chlorine is 2.5ppm.

Then take that clear sample above with the drops in it and add 5 drops of the CC reagent. If those drops don’t make the sample pink again, then you have 0ppm CC. But if it does turn pink, then add the original drops back to it which tells you how much CC you have.

 

[GregoryRB]

Just to make sure, the CC test is a follow on test to the FC test. You add the powder to the water sample and it’ll turn pink. Then you adds drops until it’s clear which tells you what the chlorine level is. It shouldn’t be tricky to call. If it takes 5 drops to go from pink to clear, then your free chlorine is 2.5ppm.

Then take that clear sample above with the drops in it and add 5 drops of the CC reagent. If those drops don’t make the sample pink again, then you have 0ppm CC. But if it does turn pink, then add the original drops back to it which tells you how much CC you have.

Sorry I'm not being clear (no pun intended!). The problem was that it didn't turn pink at all when I put the powder in, so I didn't see the point in doing the CC portion of the test to get it to clear since it was already there. Now, that second paragraph you provided is not something I saw on the laminated card at all, so I'm not sure I follow that part (nor do I think I could have gotten there when the powder didn't get me to pink).

I went ahead and threw in 5 bags of salt. I think I'll ultimately need about 8. Just not sure why my SWCG reads 3000 no matter what. Possibly user error! [EDIT: A few minutes later and it now reads 5100, so something is awry or needs to level out]

Is there anything else I should be adding based on the other readings?

 

[proavia]

Fill out your signature with pool, pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info.
This assists us in providing help specific to your pool without having to ask for it each time.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/account/signature

If you put one rounded scoop of powder in and the sample remains clear, you have no chlorine (or the chlorine is so high it bleached the sample out - would have to be really high though).

Suggest you get a Taylor K-1766 salt test and ditch the guess strips.

If you add more than one bag of salt, turn the SWG off, run the pump for 24 hours to mix the salt in, then re-test. If not in range, add more salt (use PoolMath to figure out how much). If in range, turn the SWG on.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Greg,

On TA, once the color changes, you should not have to add but a few drops before it stops changing color. It is not about the actual color, but more about the change of color.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[GregoryRB]

Fill out your signature with pool, pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info.
This assists us in providing help specific to your pool without having to ask for it each time.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/account/signature

If you put one rounded scoop of powder in and the sample remains clear, you have no chlorine (or the chlorine is so high it bleached the sample out - would have to be really high though).

Suggest you get a Taylor K-1766 salt test and ditch the guess strips.

If you add more than one bag of salt, turn the SWG off, run the pump for 24 hours to mix the salt in, then re-test. If not in range, add more salt (use PoolMath to figure out how much). If in range, turn the SWG on.

Okay, sig added. Does it all make sense? I had added the details over to the left in the account info but hadn't done the sig yet, so thanks for the reminder.

Actually, I believe the K-1766 test came with my TF-Pro Salt kit, so I'm not sure why it also included the strips (I think I added it on for some reason). The laminated card didn't include the salt test so I didn't think to use those bottles. Great to have that and will do that tomorrow after the salt has run through for a good while (running pump overnight).

SWG off. Thanks.

Greg,

On TA, once the color changes, you should not have to add but a few drops before it stops changing color. It is not about the actual color, but more about the change of color.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Okay, thanks Jim. Definitely a learning curve on these but I'll get there.

 

[Uhhello]

Okay, sig added. Does it all make sense? I had added the details over to the left in the account info but hadn't done the sig yet, so thanks for the reminder.

Actually, I believe the K-1766 test came with my TF-Pro Salt kit, so I'm not sure why it also included the strips (I think I added it on for some reason). The laminated card didn't include the salt test so I didn't think to use those bottles. Great to have that and will do that tomorrow after the salt has run through for a good while (running pump overnight).

SWG off. Thanks.


Okay, thanks Jim. Definitely a learning curve on these but I'll get there.

We've all been there or are still there Just don't get ahead of yourself. Take your time and ask before adding.

 

[proavia]

Okay, sig added. Does it all make sense? I had added the details over to the left in the account info but hadn't done the sig yet, so thanks for the reminder.

Looks good - just add your test kit.

It can be quite the learning curve, but we're here to help.

 

[Bperry]

Sorry I'm not being clear (no pun intended!). The problem was that it didn't turn pink at all when I put the powder in, so I didn't see the point in doing the CC portion of the test to get it to clear since it was already there. Now, that second paragraph you provided is not something I saw on the laminated card at all, so I'm not sure I follow that part (nor do I think I could have gotten there when the powder didn't get me to pink).

I went ahead and threw in 5 bags of salt. I think I'll ultimately need about 8. Just not sure why my SWCG reads 3000 no matter what. Possibly user error! [EDIT: A few minutes later and it now reads 5100, so something is awry or needs to level out]

Is there anything else I should be adding based on the other readings?

Ok, no chlorine in that case. Get some liquid chlorine in there pretty quick. Don’t wait for the salt.

 

[GregoryRB]

Ok, no chlorine in that case. Get some liquid chlorine in there pretty quick. Don’t wait for the salt.

Okay, I had about 1.5 gallons left and put that in. I'll go get some more today. Of concern is that I saw a couple algae spots at the bottom of the pool, though the water is still crystal clear.

Still wondering about these readings:
CH - 250
TA - 150 (Or higher? It was no longer green, but pink at 15, do I need to go true red?)
CYA - um, NFC (After two attempts, I could still see the dot down the tube at 30 ml, so...?)

Seems like my CH is at bare minimum for my newly resurfaced/plaster pool and needs to be raised.
TA is well beyond the 60-80 ideal range
CYA is, I assume, well beyond 30 still I could still see the dot with the tube full.

Anything else I should be adding along with the LC (and getting salt to the correct level)?
In Pool School, I'm only see what you do to raise TA (baking soda).
And I assume I need to get some calcium chloride or calcium chloride dihydrate for the CH. Will a proper FC level help get any of these others in line? I don't recall seeing an article about how these chemicals interact/affect the others' levels, if at all.

 

[Bperry]

Okay, I had about 1.5 gallons left and put that in. I'll go get some more today. Of concern is that I saw a couple algae spots at the bottom of the pool, though the water is still crystal clear.

Still wondering about these readings:
CH - 250
TA - 150 (Or higher? It was no longer green, but pink at 15, do I need to go true red?)
CYA - um, NFC (After two attempts, I could still see the dot down the tube at 30 ml, so...?)

Seems like my CH is at bare minimum for my newly resurfaced/plaster pool and needs to be raised.
TA is well beyond the 60-80 ideal range
CYA is, I assume, well beyond 30 still I could still see the dot with the tube full.

Anything else I should be adding along with the LC (and getting salt to the correct level)?
In Pool School, I'm only see what you do to raise TA (baking soda).
And I assume I need to get some calcium chloride or calcium chloride dihydrate for the CH. Will a proper FC level help get any of these others in line? I don't recall seeing an article about how these chemicals interact/affect the others' levels, if at all.

The TA will fix itself without any effort from you if you manage the pH to keep it 7.2-8.0. On the TA test, you keep adding drops until the color stops changing. The exact shade of final red doesn’t matter.

Getting a CYA reading of 30-40ppm is probably your next step. Then get more chlorine in there. Seeing ANY algae at all means you’de be wise to SLAM the pool. Seeing spots of algae is like seeing a snowball before it starts rolling downhill. It’s much easier to stop when it’s smaller.

CA isn’t that low but wouldn’t hurt to be raised if plaster is new.