Seeking Pool Circulation Advice

[Drewskii]

Please comment on the plans below for the placement of the following on this proposed pool:

Three wall returns
One floor return

1 proposed skimmer (N)
1 optional skimmer (S)

One concern is how to keep the sun shelf clear. Water depth on the sun shelf is 10".

Any other comments are welcome.

 

[Texas Splash]

You'll probably get lots of opinions here . Personally, I'm not a fan of skimmers in the corner. The 3 returns really have no optimal direction to push water to. Anticipating some sort of clockwise (our counter) motion probably won't work.

Is there a predominant wind direction across this pool? The wind can really influence where the skimmer(s) should be.

 

[Toxophilite]

I have 2 3/4" eyeball returns on my shelf floor. They are called bubblers, but would not want one that could not be turned off. @Texas Splash said it best. Plan for the predominate wind directions, as that's going to rule more than return flow. For me, just aiming my jets to create "some" flow to middle aids the wind to get it off the wall and to the skimmer.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

This shelf is 20’ X 7’ @ 7” of water and has 3 return lines. With rectangular shaped pools if you fish bowl the corners starting 18” below water line your pool sweep will not get stuck in the corners.

 

[Drewskii]

Prevailing wind is from the southeast....I added a wind arrow on the plan view.

If skimmer should not be in the corner where would you put it?

Our primary concern is keeping the sun shelf clear of debris.
Should a wall return be used instead of a floor return?
Is one return enough to clear the sun shelf?

 

[Drewskii]

With rectangular shaped pools if you fish bowl the corners starting 18” below water line your pool sweep will not get stuck in the corners.

Not sure what fish bowl the corners means....creating a concave shape?

This shelf is 20’ X 7’ @ 7” of water and has 3 return lines.

The difference in our shelf is that it is offset from the main body of the pool. We think the circulation of the main pool may bypass the sun shelf or only clear the portion within a few feet of the main circulation pattern.

 

[HermanTX]

I would add the second skimmer. It is very little cost now to add that. The benefit is that you have a backup if something goes wrong with the other skimmer and second, if the wind does shift or while you are swimming, that second skimmer can be helpful.
Have both skimmers and the main drain plumbed back to the equipment pad as independent lines. This allows control over each of them to optimize the suction.

I don't see the advantage of a floor return on the sun shelf. It just acts like a bubbler. if you want one on the shelf then make it a wall return that can actually push flow across it. Furthermore, I would take that floor return on actually make that a 4 return into the pool by running it a little deeper and have it exit on the wall of the shelf in the pool.

I have 5 returns on a 15k gal pool and all have good flow into the pool.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

I like to locate skimmers 1/3 of wall distance, not in the corners.
Keeping the shelf clean is difficult because you can see debris easily due to the shallow depth.
More returns the better chance of keeping it cleaner but it will still need to be brushed or vacuumed as needed.

 

[Drewskii]

I would take that floor return on actually make that a 4 return into the pool by running it a little deeper and have it exit on the wall of the shelf in the pool.

If the floor return was switched to a wall return....
The water depth is 10" so what do you mean by "running it a little deeper"?
What wall of the shelf would you put the wall return?

 

[HermanTX]

If the floor return was switched to a wall return....
The water depth is 10" so what do you mean by "running it a little deeper"?
What wall of the shelf would you put the wall return?

See picture with mark up Red Arrows. I was trying to explain adding 2 returns.
I would add a 4th return to the pool on the wall below the shelf. It may be a little deeper than the other wall returns. They can make the return on the opposite wall offset so the returns are not directly across from each other.

If you want a return on the shelf I would put it on the wall such that it blows across the shelf into the pool. You will still need to brush the shelf but there would be some motion to push debris into the pool area.

Plumbing is very cheap in the construction phase as opposed to trying to add it later. This applies both to the 2nd skimmer and proper returns to the pool..

 

[ajw22]

The way you have the skimmers with returns near them you will create short circuits of water from a return to the skimmer as shown by the red arrows. The rest of the pool will be pretty dead with water flow needing to overcome the majority of the water coming from the near return. You will not get good mixing or skimming.

Given the shape of the pool and the prevailing winds I would put two skimmers on the left wall splitting the wall in thirds. Then returns as shown the the other walls. Maybe two returns on the right wall as shown by the yellow circles.

That gives a flow from the right to left aided by the prevailing winds.

 

[Drewskii]

That gives a flow from the right to left aided by the prevailing winds.

Using your concept, if the two Yellow returns you show, and the floor return shown in Red are installed, are any other returns shown in Red installed?

The equipment pad is located on the left side of the pool. Using your concept, depending on the final solution, couldn't the left wall and the right wall be switched if that made more sense for cost reasons and/or aesthetics? So, skimmers on the right wall and yellow returns on the left wall.

 

[Drewskii]

If you want a return on the shelf I would put it on the wall such that it blows across the shelf into the pool.

This the return we thought would work best on the sun shelf floor. Perhaps two of them.

 

[HermanTX]

View attachment 453917

Not familiar with this but will be able to stump your toe on if it is on the floor of shelf?

 

[jesse-99]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I don't like the idea of a return right over the main drain (especially if its shallow there?) Depending on how deep it might be there...

 

[kimkats]

you fish bowl the corners starting 18” below water

@AQUA~HOLICS please explain this a bit more as I have not heard of this yet. I THINK I know what you mean but am not sure.

The return on the shelf should not be a floor return. That will do little to keep the shelf clean. I would put two on there and have them pointed so they will push the water and stuff OFF the shelf. My main worry is the steps and wall that forms the tight corners. That is going to be hard to keep clean.

 

[ajw22]

The equipment pad is located on the left side of the pool. Using your concept, depending on the final solution, couldn't the left wall and the right wall be switched if that made more sense for cost reasons and/or aesthetics? So, skimmers on the right wall and yellow returns on the left wall.

Your prevailing winds say the skimmers should be on the left.

The winds have more of an effect on surface flow and skimming then the return positions.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Fish-bowling the corners is when the Shotcrete crew starts rounding out the corners 18” from top of bond beam, starting ever so slightly at the beginning and ending up at the bottom of the pool with a rounded bowl. So at the surface the pool it’s a 90 and rounded at the floor. This helps the pool sweep from getting stuck at the corners and also helps with movement of the water.

 

[kimkats]

Oh I like fish-bowling! That would help with debris getting hung up there also! Thanks for spelling it out!