RPM’s to keep Flow light green

[DanWC]

So we are building a house and also having pool built along side of house. We are not moved in yet and pool people are still working on hardscape, so pool builder is having their person get water balanced and maintained at the moment.

I, however, have been reading as much info about pool upkeep and maintenance as possible anticipating the time when I will take over. They just got the salt in the pool and the SWG running. The pump has been running on a higher RPM so I wanted to see how low I could take the pump and still get adequate flow for SWG. I was expecting somewhere around 1300-1500 RPM’s as this is what I seem to see most say they run their variable speed pump at. I was not able to go below 1900 RPM’s. I would get a red light on the flow sensor any lower. So I’m thinking I’d at least have to run at or just over 2,000 RPM’s to make sure SWG is always getting good water flow.

Is this normal? I also read that having a heater would require higher RPM’s to get good flow. If this is true, is it also still true if heater to not on?

And something else, can a SWG cause tiny bubbles to come out of return lines? I had tiny bubbles coming from all three return lines today. This is the first day the SWG had been fully functional and I have definitely not noticed any bubbles prior to today. Pool guy had SWG in super chlorine mode.

 

[mknauss]

You have a small VS pump and a small cartridge filter with a heater, so a higher rpm being required is likely normal. Your SWCG is way undersized so be aware of that. Likely will need to run pump 24/7 at high % generation levels next summer. The flow of the water through the heater is what matters, not whether the heater is operating or not.
Bubbles out of the returns is normal when the SWCG runs.

 

[DanWC]

You have a small VS pump and a small cartridge filter with a heater, so a higher rpm being required is likely normal. Your SWCG is way undersized so be aware of that. Likely will need to run pump 24/7 at high % generation levels next summer. The flow of the water through the heater is what matters, not whether the heater is operating or not.
Bubbles out of the returns is normal when the SWCG runs.

Thanks so much!

Equipment is definitely something I wish I would have known more about when going through contract stuff with pool builder. I would have paid for upgraded parts. Instead I get bare minimum.

I will be upgrading those components whenever they die on me. Just going to roll with them for now.

 

[JamesW]

Below estimates your flow range at any speed with a clean filter.

At 1,800 RPM, the flow should be about 31 to 43 GPM.

Most likely the filter needs to be cleaned.

What is the filter pressure at different pump speeds?

"The IntelliChlor® SCG is designed to operate with water flow rates from 25 +/- 5 gallons per minute (gpm) up to 105 gpm.

Refer to the pipe manufacturer specifications for recommended maximum flow rate.

For flow rates over 80 gpm you must use a bypass loop (as shown below) for best chlorine production.

Installations with flow rates over 80 gpm include those that have in-floor cleaning systems or booster pumps.

These systems MUST use a bypass loop with the IntelliChlor SCG with a flow control valve that assures that the flow through the IntelliChlor SCG is maintained within its designed operating water flow rates.

Note: Operate unit with minimum flow of 25 gpm."

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/product-related/product-manuals/pool-and-spa-equipment/intellichlor/IntelliChlor_Owners_Manual_Version_3_units_after_Nov_2011_English.pdf

 

[Jimrahbe]

Dan,

You have the perfect example of a pool builder that does not have a clue how pools and SWCGs operate. He might know a great deal about how to build a pool, but nothing about the equipment needed to keep the pool properly sanitized...

Your VS pump is too small
Your SWCG is way too small
Your Filter is too small..

Yes, in 'theory' they are all ok, but ok is not what you want. Sigh.

The bigger the pump, the slower you can run it and still move a lot of water.
A SWCG needs to be at least 2 x the volume of your pool. An 18K pool needs an IC40.
The bigger the filter, the less you have to clean it and the lower the back pressure will be.

I am not picking on you, how were you supposed to know? You'd think your pool builder would have been up to speed.

That said, it is not the end of the world.. Even running 2,000 RPM is better than running a single speed pump.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[DanWC]

Dan,

You have the perfect example of a pool builder that does not have a clue how pools and SWCGs operate. He might know a great deal about how to build a pool, but nothing about the equipment needed to keep the pool properly sanitized...

Your VS pump is too small
Your SWCG is way too small
Your Filter is too small..

Yes, in 'theory' they are all ok, but ok is not what you want. Sigh.

The bigger the pump, the slower you can run it and still move a lot of water.
A SWCG needs to be at least 2 x the volume of your pool. An 18K pool needs an IC40.
The bigger the filter, the less you have to clean it and the lower the back pressure will be.

I am not picking on you, how were you supposed to know? You'd think your pool builder would have been up to speed.

That said, it is not the end of the world.. Even running 2,000 RPM is better than running a single speed pump.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Totally agree with you! And it is frustrating. I will hope the current system gives me a solid couple of years at which I will upgrade the entire thing.

 

[JamesW]

You should get about 25 GPM at about 1,500 RPM.

 

[Superblue72]

Totally agree with you! And it is frustrating. I will hope the current system gives me a solid couple of years at which I will upgrade the entire thing.

I went through the same thing, thankfully I did lots of research from when I hired the pb until its getting installed and upgraded all my equipment and pipe size....it amazes me how little they know about the equipment, I mean mine wanted to use a single speed pump and 1.5" lines..

 

[Winger 03]

Toss a brand new filter in there and see what happens.

I have an intellichlor IC40 for my 20k pool and a VSP pump. I am diligent about cleaning the carts (I have a small cart as well) but here is my story.

The IC40 was installed while I was out of town and they did a poor job of it (and they put an IC60 in by mistake). They realized their mistake after a couple of days and wanted to come out and make the swap - at that time I asked about the plumbing and getting it cleaned up. They said it would not be a problem and could do it near closing. As time went on, I needed to run the pump at higher and higher speeds (2200 RMP) to keep the cell happy. I wrote this off to the plumbing job adding a lot of obstructions, and made it known that I wanted this fixed well before closing.

They fix the plumbing and it got moderately better, maybe 1900 RPM or so when the old setup I could run at 1600 RPM. I decide to experiment - I get a brand new filter and remove the flapper from the check valve (I don't think I need one anyway). I run the pump at progressively lower speeds and wait a couple of hours between changes. With the new filter, I can run at about 900 RPM and keep the cell happy. To be safe I run at 1200 RPM.

So the issue for me was the older filter. While I thought it was clean, it must be junked up somewhere. I'll do a soak over the winter to the old one and see if it gets any better.

 

[reggiehammond]

You might be surprised what new'ish, operational pool equipment sells for on Craigslist, FB Marketplace, etc.
Could use this as a time to rip the bandaid off, do a DIY install, and only be out a few bucks.

 

[markayash]

Toss a brand new filter in there and see what happens.

I have an intellichlor IC40 for my 20k pool and a VSP pump. I am diligent about cleaning the carts (I have a small cart as well) but here is my story.

The IC40 was installed while I was out of town and they did a poor job of it (and they put an IC60 in by mistake). They realized their mistake after a couple of days and wanted to come out and make the swap - at that time I asked about the plumbing and getting it cleaned up. They said it would not be a problem and could do it near closing. As time went on, I needed to run the pump at higher and higher speeds (2200 RMP) to keep the cell happy. I wrote this off to the plumbing job adding a lot of obstructions, and made it known that I wanted this fixed well before closing.

They fix the plumbing and it got moderately better, maybe 1900 RPM or so when the old setup I could run at 1600 RPM. I decide to experiment - I get a brand new filter and remove the flapper from the check valve (I don't think I need one anyway). I run the pump at progressively lower speeds and wait a couple of hours between changes. With the new filter, I can run at about 900 RPM and keep the cell happy. To be safe I run at 1200 RPM.

So the issue for me was the older filter. While I thought it was clean, it must be junked up somewhere. I'll do a soak over the winter to the old one and see if it gets any better.

If you have a low power pressure washer it will get the stuck on junk out. The " don't try this at home" part is you need it to be low power and a wide spray and spray down. It can damage your filter so use it on a old spare.
I bought a small electric ( $49 amazon open box deal over the winter ) one for just this. I can spend hours using one of those comb cleaners and think its clean but them when I use the pressure washer TONS of stuff comes out.

 

[Winger 03]

If you have a low power pressure washer it will get the stuck on junk out. The " don't try this at home" part is you need it to be low power and a wide spray and spray down. It can damage your filter so use it on a old spare.
I bought a small electric ( $49 amazon open box deal over the winter ) one for just this. I can spend hours using one of those comb cleaners and think its clean but them when I use the pressure washer TONS of stuff comes out.

I'll give it a whirl on one of my older filters, thanks!

 

[markayash]

I'll give it a whirl on one of my older filters, thanks!

You will be shocked at the junk that comes out. I use the wide spread spray and keep it moving. Also helps to have a wall to lean against.
I tried it with my gas one once and it kept knocking it over

 

[DanWC]

Just wanted to update this thread. Went to house today and flow light was red at 2200 RPM’s. Thinking(hoping) pool filter needs to be cleaned to improve this. I’m not sure how long it has been since it’s last cleaning since pool people are doing Maintenance on pool currently.

 

[JamesW]

What was the pressure?

 

[DanWC]

What was the pressure?

I’m a bit confused on this. Because pressure is different at different RPM’s. Fair certain at 2200 RPM’s the gauge was at 10 psi which is also labeled “start” on the gauge.

 

[DanWC]

So assuming I should take note of filter pressure at say a couple different RPM’s since increasing RPM will increase filter pressure? So then I will know when to clean filter.

 

[JamesW]

Fair certain at 2200 RPM’s the gauge was at 10 psi which is also labeled “start” on the gauge.

The filter definitely needs to be cleaned.

Note the pressure now at several speeds.

Once the filter is clean, note the filter pressure at several speeds for reference and clean the filter when the pressure at any speed increases by about 10% to 25% over the clean pressure.

 

[DanWC]

Wanted to update this again. Filter was absolutely filthy. I cleaned it and it solved several issues I was having. Pump can run at 1750 with SWG still on. Also, return jets furthest from the pump were barely blowing. Huge improvement on the pressure from those after the cleaning.

 

[JamesW]

Did you get any pressure readings at different speeds?