Replacing Propane Heater

[CFlaPool]

Our Starite maxitherm 400 propane heater has finally rusted a hole in the burn box by the exchanger. It runs for a short period and then shuts down due to air intake with the hole (approx. 3x5”). I got two options from our heater guys.

Here in Florida, mice and other critters are a problem with these heaters. Opening it up today, the guy was faced with its inside completely full with leaves, twigs, plastic bags, and even a piece of a used shooting range target. Both options are supposed to provide much better protection against nesting critters.

Here are the options I was given. We have a 1000 gallon spa, so 400 is a must. He said the Pentair is more popular seller. Your thoughts? As usual I searched the forum and discovered many heater threads that educated me. Are both able to convert to NG if we natural gas in the future?

Estimate Details​

Services​	Unit Price​	Qty​	Total​
Jandy JXI 400 Natural Gas or Propane	$4,807.00	1	$4,807.00
Jandy JXI 400 unit Installed with Pressure Relief Valve, check valve, and Anode **Manufacturer Warranty** Residential- 2 years parts and labor Commercial- 1 year parts and labor SHOW LESS
Pentair Master Temp 400k Natural Gas or Propane	$4,850.00	1	$4,850.00
Pentair Master Temp 400k unit Installed with Pressure Relief Valve, check valve, and Anode **Manufacturer Warranty** Residential- 2 years parts and labor Commercial- 1 year parts and labor

 

[1poolman1]

Our Starite maxitherm 400 propane heater has finally rusted a hole in the burn box by the exchanger. It runs for a short period and then shuts down due to air intake with the hole (approx. 3x5”). I got two options from our heater guys.

Here in Florida, mice and other critters are a problem with these heaters. Opening it up today, the guy was faced with its inside completely full with leaves, twigs, plastic bags, and even a piece of a used shooting range target. Both options are supposed to provide much better protection against nesting critters.

Here are the options I was given. We have a 1000 gallon spa, so 400 is a must. He said the Pentair is more popular seller. Your thoughts? As usual I searched the forum and discovered many heater threads that educated me. Are both able to convert to NG if we natural gas in the future?

Estimate Details​

Services​	Unit Price​	Qty​	Total​
Jandy JXI 400 Natural Gas or Propane	$4,807.00	1	$4,807.00
Jandy JXI 400 unit Installed with Pressure Relief Valve, check valve, and Anode **Manufacturer Warranty** Residential- 2 years parts and labor Commercial- 1 year parts and labor SHOW LESS
Pentair Master Temp 400k Natural Gas or Propane	$4,850.00	1	$4,850.00
Pentair Master Temp 400k unit Installed with Pressure Relief Valve, check valve, and Anode **Manufacturer Warranty** Residential- 2 years parts and labor Commercial- 1 year parts and labor

The Pentair Master Temp is a Sta-Rite (which came out years before Pentair bought them) in a box.
If they are a reliable company, that extra-year's warranty for $43.00 might be the determining factor. You're familiar with the operation of the Max-E-Therm, the Master Temp will be the same, only with a slightly improved user interface.

 

[ajw22]

Get the MasterTemp.

MK Rat Proofing sells wire mesh kits to cover the vents or you can fabricate your own using 1/4" mesh wire screen or simple chicken wire and some sheet metal.

Some people put mothballs inside the unit to keep mice out.

 

[CFlaPool]

Get the MasterTemp.

MK Rat Proofing sells wire mesh kits to cover the vents or you can fabricate your own using 1/4" mesh wire screen or simple chicken wire and some sheet metal.

Some people put mothballs inside the unit to keep mice out.

Thanks for the suggestions. In 2018 when the boards were replaced on the unit, the inside was cleaned out of mice and their nests, and i used the peppermint packets around it and also some inside. I never did an annual cleaning, which I should have been doing, and never re-applied the peppermint. (We have a dog and moth balls are not recommended.) Something about not having the time when raising three kids made time fly by. That's my excuse. Now, I have no excuses.

Also, both have 2-year residential warranty for parts and labor. So that's a tie.

I assume the model B rat proof is what I would want. It says it's for the newer model masterTemp. I assume the screens are installed on the outside of the heater. Rat Proof 201

Both are supposed to work with our EasyTouch Screenlogic system.

Based on online heater prices (~$4200), I feel the cost estimates are reasonable. There was no charge for the housecall today to check it out.

 

[CFlaPool]

Is it worth having a heater bypass installed?

 

[ajw22]

Is it worth having a heater bypass installed?

Always.

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[CFlaPool]

Always.

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Now it seems that the Pentair masterTemp will have an internal bypass that will allow 90% of the water to bypass the heating element. Is that sufficient, or should I alsop get an external bypass liks this one linked in the post you referenced?

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/parts-sheets/heaters/pentair_heater_auto_bypass_valve_replacement%20_kit.pdf

 

[ajw22]

MasterTemp always had the internal bypass.

The external bypass is useful for other reasons.

 

[CFlaPool]

MasterTemp always had the internal bypass.

The external bypass is useful for other reasons.

OK, yes the ability to totally bypass heater if either (1) pH gets down to 7 or below, or (2) heater starts leaking. At least those are the advantages I got from the post above. But what I think you are saying is that the Pentair I am getting already does the 90/10% when heater is not on.

Oops, forgot this: Saves a lot of $ on electricity. But are the savings the same if the heater has an internal bypass?

 

[ajw22]

The internal bypass has a lot more head restriction to the flow then an external bypass has.

 

[CFlaPool]

The internal bypass has a lot more head restriction to the flow then an external bypass has.

I sure hope I am not being a pest here. After reading numerous threads here, that you always normally want some water, maybe 10%, to flow through the heater. And that this is what the internal bypass does. Having an additional simple manual bypass valve on the intake to divert to the outflow of the heater would only be useful for maintenance (physical or chemical) to completely bypass the heater, because you need water to go through the heater. Getting the Pentair kit with the intellivalve would seem to be redundant with the internal bypass.

Am I correct, or where did I go wrong?

 

[ajw22]

I sure hope I am not being a pest here. After reading numerous threads here, that you always normally want some water, maybe 10%, to flow through the heater. And that this is what the internal bypass does. Having an additional simple manual bypass valve on the intake to divert to the outflow of the heater would only be useful for maintenance (physical or chemical) to completely bypass the heater, because you need water to go through the heater.

If you study Pentair Automatic Bypass Installation instructions you will find they recommend the external valve be set to allow about 10% flow through the heater.

Getting the Pentair kit with the intellivalve would seem to be redundant with the internal bypass.

New heaters will have the BYP-VLV connection on the PCB that will automatically open and close the external bypass valve.

The external bypass valve has much less restriction "head" then the internal bypass that runs water through small manifold pipes.

Am I correct, or where did I go wrong?

A bypass with 2" pipes and valves will be much more effective then the internal bypass that runs through small passages in the heater manifold.

There are reason why Pentair developed the automatic external bypass even though the heater has an internal bypass.

 

[1poolman1]

I sure hope I am not being a pest here. After reading numerous threads here, that you always normally want some water, maybe 10%, to flow through the heater. And that this is what the internal bypass does. Having an additional simple manual bypass valve on the intake to divert to the outflow of the heater would only be useful for maintenance (physical or chemical) to completely bypass the heater, because you need water to go through the heater. Getting the Pentair kit with the intellivalve would seem to be redundant with the internal bypass.

Am I correct, or where did I go wrong?

Internal bypass is solely to regulate how much water goes through the heat exchanger. The thermal regulator does a similar job.
Both are designed to keep the water temperature in the heater at a safe and efficient temperature and to keep condensation from forming on the outside of the heat exchanger. Lose either of them and you have problems with the water getting too hot internally and then as it enters the pool it could harm someone it the other safety devices didn't work..