Replacing pool pump - any recommendations?

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While I am waiting for the City to call me back re: regulations/codes about pool pumps and MDs, I will have to look into replacement weir doors. My old door was the type that had nubs on the bottom left & right side of the door. I have looked at INYO pools.com and Pool Supply World, and it looks like there at tons of different weir doors. Hopefully, they make the one I need. Is there a universal one you know of Mark?
 
bbrock said:
While I am waiting for the City to call me back re: regulations/codes about pool pumps and MDs, I will have to look into replacement weir doors. My old door was the type that had nubs on the bottom left & right side of the door. I have looked at INYO pools.com and Pool Supply World, and it looks like there at tons of different weir doors. Hopefully, they make the one I need. Is there a universal one you know of Mark?
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At my old house, the weir broke, I got one with spring loaded pins and it was in use for 11 years until we sold the house.
 
Looks like my skimmer is a named this whole thing or a part of this:
Sta-Rite U-3 Swim Quip WC27-92

I learned there was a hinge attachment that held the weir door on. I removed the one screw holding this hinge in place and pulled out the hinge. Here is the best description/details of it I found online:
http://www.saltwaterpoolparts.com/weir-08650-0022.html

Probably buying the OEM part is smarter, but I'm curious about these spring loaded weir doors. Robl45, sounds like u had good luck with that design. Was it just a universal size/design? I don't see how the springs would hold up for that long compared to a design that uses a weir on a hinge that I can screw in.
 
Hi Mark and anyone else still reading this. The City contact got back to me today. Apparently, I do need to have a permit if I want to replace the pump, which would fall under an electrical permit, and then I need to have a second pool permit with regards to replacing the MD if it is to just put on an anti-vortex cover. I am going to email him followup/clarification b/c I had to go when we were on the phone. I am shocked that I need to have 2 permits if I understood him right. Not to mention, I need clarification b/c it sounded like I can't even replace the pump without doing the MD at the same time. This really throws a wrench in things.

While I don't endorse not doing things by the book, I just wonder about all those others who have or will be replacing their pump if they are going to get permits pulled. But, I am sure the need for a permit varies based on where you live. I guess doing it permitted is safer (even if we were going to have it done the right way) b/c god forbid years later we have a swim party and there is a tragic event/drowning, we are opening ourselves up for a lawsuit if it came in to question about our equipment being up to code/permitted.
 
My thoughts on the replacing my weir door are that this is more of a potential problem vs. the net benefit I may realize from putting one back in. If having a weir increases the possibility that it can get closed or stuck, and I can burn out a pump motor, that is a lot more problematic than debris back flowing into the pool or slightly less skimming action. Especially if I replace my pump, I really question the necessity and true benefit of a weir door.
 
I contacted my home warranty company re: the flow I have noted going to my solar panels despite the solar being turned off. I got this claim in right before my policy expired (not looking to replace this hm warranty b/c I have been less than thrilled by it or the service techs the company uses). Tech came out and stated that he feels it is a bad solar diverter/actuator valve. He is planning on coming back next week to replace the inner parts to my Pentair Compool 3 way solar diverter/actuator valve (I have pics of this valve on the earlier pages in this thread... maybe pg 3). We discussed my check valves (also shown on a previous page) and thoughts that at least the one right after my filter is bad b/c how else would I being getting air escaping and traveling backwards through my system (losing my prime), as evidenced when the lid to my pump strainer basket is removed. Tech stated that of the two check valves I have, the one after the filter is not needed because it is not really serving a purpose. He went on to say that it is normal to lose prime when the pump strainer basket lid is removed, and that the check valve after the filter is not really stopping any back flow into the filter whether it is there or not. He said that if my diverter valve was functioning normally, then I should not be getting any back flow into/through the filter, and that the water is not "naturally" going to flow back when the pump is off. What do you all think about this? Is a post filter check valve necessary?
 
You should shop for a new pool tech because that one doesn't know what he is talking about.

The check valve after the filter is to prevent the water in the solar panels from draining backwards through the pump. A solar valve has a small check valve which allows water to flow backwards even when it is shut off so the panels can drain. So the solar valve does NOT prevent water from flowing backwards.

The return side solar check valve is to prevent the panels from filling with water when the solar valve is turned off. If you want water to sit in your panels getting hotter and hotter when the solar valve is off and potentially softening the PVC pipe and allowing to collapse, then by all means you can eliminate that check valve.
 
I was thinking that this guy had it wrong because when you first talked to me about this stuff I was already on board with what you're saying. So when he stated it wasn't necessary, and then tried to explain how, his theory made seemed plausible but I guess it was because I never really understood fully how the three-way solar diverter valve functioned.

Tx Mark for clarifying. Lo and behold his true colors are exposed and he's just like any of the other techs that had been found originally by the home warranty company.
 
While I have been pretty set on replacing my pump w/ a Hayward Ecostar SP3400, I have been considering more about what twesterd was posting re: a variable speed motor replacement. I saw that INYO Pools.com has some VS motors http://www.inyopools.com/variable-speed-pool-pump-motors.aspx. I think one that may work for my application could be one of the round flange models, either ECM16CU or ECM27CU. Mark, or others, would you know if one of these could work for my application? THe ECM27CU, at least at this site at $652, that price is very comparable to what I could get a Hayward Maxflo SP2302. Replacing the motor would be easier, as you had pointed out Mark, but I wonder at this price if it is smarter to just go with an entire new VS pump. The ECM27CU seems like the better of the two replacement motors at least from the user interface contol.

Looks like the ECM27CU is a max 2.7 HP with max RPM at 3450. What is the GPM flow rate for this motor at various RPM? I assume it would be similar to the Hayward Ecostar SP3400.
 

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The reason I am still hesitant with the Eco-star is just because it's a large output of cash versus if a motor replacement would actually work and bring some savings. It is all contingent on the purchase price though of the motor. The thing is it sounds as though in post 66, Mark you responded that the low speed on a dual speed pump won't be powerful enough to keep the VRV closed or to prime. If that is the case, then it seems like I should scratch dual speed motor replacements off the list, correct? The thing is though, in your signature line Mark, it shows that you have a 1/2HP 2 speed pump, right? And if I recall you have a two-story with solar. How does that 1/2 HP 2 speed work for your system when my system is a single-story with solar, no water features, just a Polaris280?
 
Keep in mind that with any VS pump you should have surge protection installed on the power lines so you need to add that cost when doing the economics.

Second, the VS motor replacements from lesser known companies don't have a lot of field experience so reliability is a bit of an unknown.

I chose a 2 speed motor swap because I found one on Craigslist for a good price and it would have taken a long time before a VS was more cost effective. Two speeds are almost as cost effective as a VS but with our rates, a VS usually will win out when comparing cost over the long term but it isn't by a lot. As for solar, I run solar on high speed and just use low speed for non-solar run time. I use a cover so on most days, solar only runs for an hour or two and that is enough for the cleaner too so it works out ok for me. A VS does allow you to optimize flow rates a bit more so you can minimize energy usage while solar is running.
 
Tx Mark.

Are you talking about having a GFI installed when the new pump or motor is installed? I was going to have a GFI installed anyway. If that is not what you are talking about, what exactly are you referring to? I have not been out here in the Tri-Valley too long, but in your time out here have you been victim to surges?

I even searched TFP for info/threads about the Century (formerly A.O. Smith) V-Green 270 VS motor replacement ECM27CU. I only found this: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/53713-What-is-the-best-variable-speed-motor-w-square-flange. Unfortunately, this thread only had some discussion about the motor vs. actual user input.
 
Surge protection is different than a GFI. VS drives are very susceptible to surges. You might be able to get away without it but the cost of protection is much less than a new drive.
 
I notice now that you had discussed surge protection in your post(s) in the above thread. Can you explain it in this thread as well regarding where exactly one places surge protection for a pool pump? How is this handled?

Have you experienced any surges out in Pleasanton? Are VS more susceptible to surges b/c of the built-in timer? If not, what makes them more susceptible?
 
A VS is more susceptible to surges because it has many sensitive electronic components in the drive. You can read about VFDs here and what is involved:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-frequency_drive

Manufactures are just finding out how vulnerable they really are and many are now recommending surge protection as part of the installation.

As for Pleasanton, I don't know how bad it is because on most of my electronic components I use surge protection strips. For the pool, it might be better just to get a whole house surge protector so you can protect everything:

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_5jn6ex0qru_b

BTW, two speed pump motors do not have electronic components so don't require any protection.
 
Considering the MaxFlo SP 2302 since it doesn't work well with automation controllers, if I ever upgrade my solar panels, would that warrant having to get an automated solar controller? I guess I've been really debating if the EcoStar is really worth the extra money for the bells and whistles it has. It is definitely overkill for my current system. Therefore, that is why I have reconsidered on the MaxFlo (and replacement motors for that fact, but at the price of these motors, I might as well get an entirely new pump). Albeit, this is not without its problems if we ever upgrade solar and have to get an automated controller to operate the new solar panels. I'm not sure how new panels are controlled.
 
I looked at the manual. Looks like its options would be the ProLogic, E-Command 4, or OnCommand. That is a topic for another thread, but at least it satisfies my curiosity that it could work w/ automation.

Couple other thoughts/questions I had regarding the pool pump. Mark, in one of your prior posts (I would have to find the exact one), you mentioned that if I went w/ the MaxFlo, my setup/solar would only need about 30-40 GPM, which would be about 1800-2100 RPM. Would this also be a high enough RPM to simultaneously operate my Polaris 280? Is it as simple as what was stated I could do to determine proper pump speed/RPM when my solar is on, which I think was take 10-12 psi and adding a couple of more psi?

Also, I have read that people should not operate their pump at full speed/RPM b/c of possible filter damage. Is that true? Even though my pump is 3/4 HP with max RPM at 3450, the MaxFlo is 1.5 HP with max RPM at 3000. But, the Ecostar is 2 HP (2.7 SFHP if think) with max RPM at 3450. Maybe I am not understanding the relationship b/w HP and RPM correctly (I plead my ignorance), but couldn't these higher HP pumps damage my pool filter? At the least wouldn't it increase the filter pressure? Maybe the MaxFlo wouldn't as you stated that at max RPM 3000 it would filter 76 GPM w/out solar, and 55 GPM w/solar. That is very comparable to my current Pentair at 75 GPM w/out solar and 59 GPM w/solar. But, there is a difference with the Ecostar, which was stated to filter 105 GPM (3450 RPM) w/out solar, and 73 GPM w/solar.
 
AS long as the Polaris is using a booster, then it should be fine. But it won't work without the booster.

Is it as simple as what was stated I could do to determine proper pump speed/RPM when my solar is on, which I think was take 10-12 psi and adding a couple of more psi?
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It can be but not always. If the panels are 25' high and the VRV is located near the top of the panels, you need at least 11 PSI to keep the VRV closed but that does not account for the extra head loss in the plumbing so you need a few extra PSI so the pressure at the VRV is >0. Exactly what that is can be determined by trial and error. Also, to allow for lower RPM/PSI, you can drop the VRV to a lower location even though the panels are higher. It will still work ok. How high are your panels/VRV again?

Maybe the MaxFlo wouldn't at you stated that at max RPM 3000 it would filter 76 GPM w/out solar, and 55 GPM w/solar. That is very comparable to my current Pentair at 75 GPM w/out solar and 59 GPM w/solar. But, there is a difference with the Ecostar, which was stated to filter 105 GPM (3450 RPM) w/out solar, and 73 GPM w/solar.
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The EcoStar is a much bigger pump than the MaxFlo. But as long as you are not trying to run a spa off the same pump, the MaxFlo is big enough.
 

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