Raypak Crosswind HPump with Jandy VS pump

[flipfloplife2]

Raypak Crosswind 137 BTU on order. Pump is 2.5HP Jandy VS. Also existing (and working) is my Jandy TruClear Chlorinator.

I feel fine about doing the 220 wiring (already have it roughed in).

I am a bit head scratching on the control wiring. I think I understand that internal to the heat pump is a flow sensor that will not allow the heat pump to operate unless the pump is on. Heat Pump is entirely above water level of pool. Should be all set on that (?). So the heat pump should not even try to operate unless it senses the pump is on. Check. However. What I'm a bit sketchy on is how to encourage my heat pump to turn on the pump in the event that it should go ahead and heat (or cool) the water? My electricians didn't understand the RS-485 part of the wiring on original install, so i just read the manuals to connect the pump and the chlorinator, hooked up the provided low voltage control cable like the diagram says to, 4 wires, 4 terminals in the pump, and again on the chlorinator side, it works. Chlorinator knows when pump is running and apparently ... chlorinates (according to chemical testing, all good on that front).

But in the introduction of the heat pump ... i should ... well, that's where my question hits. The Raypak documentation says that it can work with a 2 or 3 wire low voltage control solution --- super --- but where would that tie into my jandy pump to make that all work? I do not have the full jandy automation setup -- i might in the future but not now. both the heat pump and the pump controller support rs-485 -- just piggyback that? or there are some unlabeled terminals (5 of them) in the jandy pump control area (and not mentioned in jandy documentation, upper left of hopefully attached diagram)? A steer would be great...

while the raypak documentation SHOWS the rs-485 port it doesn't really talk about it's use in any of the documentation. could it be as easy as just plugging in the rs-485 cable on both ends? anyone know exactly what the connector is -- some flavor of 4 pint dupont or molex connector? could i break anything by trying that?

here is jandy vs pump side diagram.

 

[flipfloplife2]

here is the schematic for the Heat Pump -- upper left it says rs-485. so potentially just run that rs-485 control cord over to the jandy pump and piggyback it into the terminal connections on that side? that seems crude but if thats how it's done... ?

 

[ajw22]

Simple answer is you can't directly connect the Heat Pump to the VS pump without having an automation panel like the Aqualink.

The pump and the heat pump RS-485 do not know how to talk to each other.

And I don't think the Aqualink will work with a Raypak RS-485 control.

 

[flipfloplife2]

oh. i guess i misunderstood rs-485 --- i thought it was a universal protocol. huh.

sooooo... am i out of luck here? set up timers to make sure that the pump is running certain times of the day so that if the heat pump needs to work it can? seems like a lot of holes in that kind of setup?

 

[ajw22]

oh. i guess i misunderstood rs-485 --- i thought it was a universal protocol. huh.

It is like English versus French. The alphabet is the same but the words are different.

RS-485 is just the common protocol for the digital communications of the bits. Each device needs to have the programming for what the messages mean. The message protocols are proprietary to manufacturers and rarely interchangeable.

 

[ajw22]

Raypak tells you in the Crosswinds Installation Manual that it is designed to operate with their Protege VS pump. Only those two devices understand the messages sent through RS-485.

 

[flipfloplife2]

right. it also tells me that the 5 pin connector from the raypak isn't supposed to be compatible w/ my jandy pump (although i'm suspicious that the un-labeled 5 pin in the upper left corner of the jandy pump might be for external control).



so ... that leaves me reliant on timers to get the pump to come on when the heat pump needs to work? that seems ... silly.

 

[ajw22]

so ... that leaves me reliant on timers to get the pump to come on when the heat pump needs to work? that seems ... silly.

The VS pump control panel let's you set the pump run schedule. The heat pump runs when the pump is running.

 

[flipfloplife2]

ok - so i'm massively overthinking this.

i should just set the heat pump to the temp i want, then make sure the pump is scheduled to be running enough to let the heat pump do it's job. the heat pump will always be "on" -- but only heating or chilling when the pump is running. so if the water isn't hot/cold enough then it's likely because the pump's schedule has not allowed that to happen.

this makes me want to figure a way to force the pump to turn on based on temperature. maybe bridge too far.

frustrating that the manufacturers have chosen to silo their protocols.

i suppose the answer is spend more money on a iaqualink and have that control the heat pump and the filter pump. i'm pretty sure the aqualink can control most/any brand of heat pump? (and yes, i distinctly recall you telling me to stay out of the jandy ecosystem... )

 

[ajw22]

The pump must be running for the HP or the Aqualink to get a good water temperature.

With automation you run the pump 24/7 at a slow speed that uses minimal electricity. When the automation sees the water temperature is low and needs to be heated it tells the HP to generate heat and the VS pump to increase the pump speed for what the heater needs. When the water temperature gets to the heat setpoint the HP stops generating and the VS pump slows the RPM.

What model Jandy VS pump do you have? If it can take external control speed inputs then you might be able to use the External control Outputs of your HP as described in Section 27 to set the pump RPM when the heater generates heat.

 

[flipfloplife2]

My pump is Jandy VSFloPro — VSFHP130DVS — 1.3 HP. Are you talking about the 5 pin instructions for part 27 of the raypak manual? they describe the functionality for intelliclor, hayward, and some others, but indicate jandy to be a no-go. been trying to find the jandy pin-out (that is in the jandy pump control section for something, and it does have 5 wires...)

 

[ajw22]

My pump is Jandy VSFloPro — VSFHP130DVS — 1.3 HP. Are you talking about the 5 pin instructions for part 27 of the raypak manual? they describe the functionality for intelliclor, hayward, and some others, but indicate jandy to be a no-go. been trying to find the jandy pin-out (that is in the jandy pump control section for something, and it does have 5 wires...)

Yup, Jandy is the least open manufacturer for connectivity.