Poured concrete coping and decking poured in the same day? (with expansion joint)

[Dunn08]

Hi everyone. Couple questions regarding my coping and decking for my gunite pool currently under construction.

I'm in the desert landscape of Henderson Nevada. We're doing poured concrete coping and decking. My PB says I don't need an expansion joint between them OR between the coping and bond beam, because the soil isn't expansive. I don't agree, nor do I want a solid one-piece cantilever pour so I'm demanding the expansion joint between the coping and decking, having them be completely separate.

Couple questions

PB says they can pour the coping and decking at the same time, just using foam between them. I assume this can be done, but is this normal practice? Or is the deck usually poured on a separate day?

Do you just try and push the foam down and fill in with backer rod and caulk to finish the expansion joint?

Lastly, I have a (2) 4ft sections of 18" raised bond beam with a 5ft tall modern grotto between them. The spa is also raised 18". All with concrete deck around them. I've tried to find info on this but haven't had a lot of luck specifically regarding decking butting up against a raised bond beam. Do I need an expansion joint between the raised beam and the concrete decking or are the raised portions strong enough to not need one?

Appreciate your time and feedback. I'll try and post pics tomorrow, I know that helps.

 

[ajw22]

I agree on you insisting on an expansion joint.

It is important that the expansion joint not be compromised otherwise it will be ineffective and worthless. I don't know how the builder can assure the expansion joint is maintained when pouring both at the same time.

Usually the coping is poured, the forms are removed from the coping, the foam is installed along the edge of the coping, and then the deck is poured. I don't understand how they can install the foam and set the expansion joint before the coping is set.

I get the sense that your builder is trying to take shortcuts for his benefit and not yours.

Let's see what @AQUA~HOLICS thinks.

Expansion Joints and Coping - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Have seen this performed before and getting the foam to lay strait was more work than expected and not as straight as needed. If their is going to be a radius curve on the edge of the concrete where it meets the foam this will be hard to accomplish with the foam all ready in place. Then insuring that the concrete is completely separate from each side of the foam will be a challenge also. This is not the norm. Separate pour dates are most common. Your main concern is the expansion of the flat work moving horizontal and having the room to do so without directly pushing on a non move able object such as a RBB.

 

[Dunn08]

I don't understand how they can install the foam and set the expansion joint before the coping is set.

I get the sense that your builder is trying to take shortcuts for his benefit and not yours.

I Agree 100%.

Your main concern is the expansion of the flat work moving horizontal and having the room to do so without directly pushing on a non move able object such as a RBB

Here is a pic, they actually just finished tiling it.

So in your opinion, their should be an expansion joint at the base of the RBB as well, and not just between the coping that’s at deck level and the decking?

It makes sense to me. Like you said, when the deck expands into the RBB, something has to give, causing cracks in the decking I’m sure.

 

[Dunn08]

So before I ask these next questions, I want to introduce myself. I have no background in construction. I inspected and maintained F-15’s for the USAF and I now do the same across multiple airframes as a civilian contractor. By nature of what I do, and just who I am, I’d consider myself slightly OCD and a perfectionist. Especially when I’m paying as much as money as we all are these days. Bottom line, I just want things done correctly, preferably the first time. I say all of this because I DO realize I sometimes can go a little overboard with things being the way I want them.

So if it’s ok, I’ll be bouncing things off you guys so I know if my gripes are warranted or if I need to grab a beer and let things go.

Pool was tiled today. The top of the tile line is higher than the bond beam but instead of leveling the entire width of the bond beam with the tile line, they just feathered in the edges.
Is this a normal practice, or laziness? Perhaps they let the concrete guy level it prior to pouring the coping…

It also appears like they ran out if mortar mix, because some of the material they used sure resembles grout.

Speaking of the top of the bond beam and coping….

Is a bond breaker only required if pouring a solid one piece cantilevered deck/coping?
Since I’ll be pouring the coping, then the decking using a proper expansion joint between them, can the coping be poured directly on the bond beam?

Thanks in advance for your time and advice.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Yes, in my opinion I would have an expansion joint at the RBB.
Feathering in the edges is common practice.
A Bond Breaker is good to have in place prior to pouring the coping on top of the bond beam. Felt paper is being used in the picture.

 

[Dunn08]

Yes, in my opinion I would have an expansion joint at the RBB.
Feathering in the edges is common practice.
A Bond Breaker is good to have in place prior to pouring the coping on top of the bond beam. Felt paper is being used in the picture.

Thank you, I truly appreciate the opportunity to learn.

 

[MAPR-Austin]

Yes, in my opinion I would have an expansion joint at the RBB.
Feathering in the edges is common practice.
A Bond Breaker is good to have in place prior to pouring the coping on top of the bond beam. Felt paper is being used in the picture.View attachment 464633View attachment 464634

Can you elaborate a bit on the need for a bond breaker here? I have always epoxied rebar pins into the bond beam and tied a ribbon of rebar around the pool. I run a full expansion joint between the coping and deck.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

If the coping becomes one with the BB and movement occurs pushing the coping it may crack the face of the BB. and tiles. Being independent allows a minimum movement to occur at the tile line and a silicone tile grout will absorb the movement as long as it’s not a catastrophic amount and hopefully saving the tiles that meet at the coping. This is how it was explained to me by the installation crew.

 

[Aquagenarian]

I Agree 100%.



Here is a pic, they actually just finished tiling it.

So in your opinion, their should be an expansion joint at the base of the RBB as well, and not just between the coping that’s at deck level and the decking?

It makes sense to me. Like you said, when the deck expands into the RBB, something has to give, causing cracks in the decking I’m sure.View attachment 464624

Looks nice, is that all tile or a mix of stone ledger?