Post partial drain chemical help

[five054life]

I live in Phoenix, Arizona, and just took over my pool for the first time. A few weeks ago my testing at Leslie‘s showed a CYA of 180. Did a partial drain that resulted in a revised CYA of 120. Did another partial drain, and subsequently learned about TFP. I purchased the TF pro test kit today and here are my results:
CYA 75, FC 4, CC 0.5, CH 700, pH 8, TA 130

Obviously, I can add chlorine and baking soda to adjust the FC and TA levels, respectively, but it also looks based on my high CYA and CH levels that I need to do another partial drain. Does that seem right? Ugh I really hope not. If I do, should I even bother with the chlorine and baking soda today or should I just start with the partial drain??

If I do need to drain, can I drain and then refill or do I need to instead fill at the same time as draining to keep the water levels up? this time of year the temperatures are low of 60 and high of 90. I have a pebble tech (plaster) pool that Leslie’s (I know I know the devil) says is OK to drain even when it’s hot, but it’s 20 years old so I’m very nervous about damaging it. Hence the partial I have done in the last few weeks. The last two times I’ve done it, I have drained a little more than half of the pool overnight taking about 14 hours and then refilled it with two hoses, taking about seven hours. It’s starting to get a bit warm out, though, so wondering if I should, drain from the deep end and refill from the shallow end?? Any advice would be very appreciated!

 

[V___25]

There are several experts who live in the Southwest region that will probably be along to help further but you may want to consider the No Drain Water Exchange method. They can also comment on your CH issues as many of them experience extremely hard water.

For you CYA round up to 80 - you can't interpret between the lines. In your climate with your sun, you can sustain a higher CYA so you may not need to lower the CYA much more. The article I linked will help explain how best to determine where to drain and fill from.

Good luck!

 

[Bperry]

I live in Phoenix, Arizona, and just took over my pool for the first time. A few weeks ago my testing at Leslie‘s showed a CYA of 180. Did a partial drain that resulted in a revised CYA of 120. Did another partial drain, and subsequently learned about TFP. I purchased the TF pro test kit today and here are my results:
CYA 75, FC 4, CC 0.5, CH 700, pH 8, TA 130

Obviously, I can add chlorine and baking soda to adjust the FC and TA levels, respectively, but it also looks based on my high CYA and CH levels that I need to do another partial drain. Does that seem right? Ugh I really hope not. If I do, should I even bother with the chlorine and baking soda today or should I just start with the partial drain??

If I do need to drain, can I drain and then refill or do I need to instead fill at the same time as draining to keep the water levels up? this time of year the temperatures are low of 60 and high of 90. I have a pebble tech (plaster) pool that Leslie’s (I know I know the devil) says is OK to drain even when it’s hot, but it’s 20 years old so I’m very nervous about damaging it. Hence the partial I have done in the last few weeks. The last two times I’ve done it, I have drained a little more than half of the pool overnight taking about 14 hours and then refilled it with two hoses, taking about seven hours. It’s starting to get a bit warm out, though, so wondering if I should, drain from the deep end and refill from the shallow end?? Any advice would be very appreciated!

You dont need baking soda, your TA is already too high.

 

[mknauss]

It would have been best to do a complete drain and refill.
If you are not using softened water for make up water, you will need to do a full drain this winter. Or do a 50 % drain and refill now and you can possibly get to the following year.

 

[five054life]

I know I should have done a full drain and refill, but I didn’t think that I would be able to do that without damaging the pebble tech with the temperatures this time of year. So is the priority to drain it?? Or can I wait until Winter?

 

[five054life]

There are several experts who live in the Southwest region that will probably be along to help further but you may want to consider the No Drain Water Exchange method. They can also comment on your CH issues as many of them experience extremely hard water.

For you CYA round up to 80 - you can't interpret between the lines. In your climate with your sun, you can sustain a higher CYA so you may not need to lower the CYA much more. The article I linked will help explain how best to determine where to drain and fill from.

Good luck!

Thank you!! We do have reverse osmosis available but sheesh it’s so expensive. I may try a partial drain just to lower it a smidge more because honestly this pool has been a nightmare for 2 years and I want to give us a fighting chance this summer!

 

[mknauss]

I know I should have done a full drain and refill, but I didn’t think that I would be able to do that without damaging the pebble tech with the temperatures this time of year. So is the priority to drain it?? Or can I wait until Winter?

Depends. Do you have softened water for make up water due to evaporation? Would your rather drain this winter or possibly wait another year?

Anytime you drain the pool it can possibly damage the plaster. Best to set up the system to maintain the chemistry and not have to do complete drains.

It is best to drain and refill between November and March if at all possible.

 

[five054life]

Depends. Do you have softened water for make up water due to evaporation? Would your rather drain this winter or possibly wait another year?

Anytime you drain the pool it can possibly damage the plaster. Best to set up the system to maintain the chemistry and not have to do complete drains.

It is best to drain and refill between November and March if at all possible.

I just have regular old water from the hose. I didn’t know this until I started trying to learn about the pool, but it sounds like our water in Arizona is pretty hard. We do not have a water softener. I’d prefer to never drain it again hahaha. But am I going to be dumping loads and loads of chlorine in due to the higher CYA? The chlorine goes from 5 to 1 in a day, no joke. Now there’s also substantial evaporation as it gets warmer here. My pool water levels dropped almost 2 inches in a week (we don’t have a leak.. I paid $800 to get a leak test performed a few months ago).

 

[proavia]

Don't use any more CalHypo - it increases your CH, which you don't need.

Your CYA is 80, we round up so your "75" is 80.
Use the FC/CYA Levels to determine the needed FC. Alwaysaim for high end of the target range and never let FC get to minimum.
Minimum FC is 6 and target is 9-11 for your CYA of 80. Be aware, pH test is invalid with FC over 10.
An FC level of 5 is insufficient and is inviting algae. Allowing it to drop to 1 is making the matter worse.
Suggest you do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to see if you have a nascent algae bloom or not.

If you do NOT pass the OCLT, you need to SLAM Process.
That will require SLAM FC level of 31 at a CYA of 80.
A quick drain/refill may be in order....

It's going to be mid to upper 90's for the next few days and then maybe 100+ on Tuesday. It's a bit lateto do a full drain/refill - but you could do one IF you have a high rate drain pump AND you stayed by the pool the entire time the sun is up to hose down the peeble to help keep it moist.

Test your tap water for pH, TA and CH. Report your findings here.

 

[five054life]

Don't use any more CalHypo - it increases your CH, which you don't need.

Your CYA is 80, we round up so your "75" is 80.
Use the FC/CYA Levels to determine the needed FC. Alwaysaim for high end of the target range and never let FC get to minimum.
Minimum FC is 6 and target is 9-11 for your CYA of 80. Be aware, pH test is invalid with FC over 10.
An FC level of 5 is insufficient and is inviting algae. Allowing it to drop to 1 is making the matter worse.
Suggest you do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to see if you have a nascent algae bloom or not.

If you do NOT pass the OCLT, you need to SLAM Process.
That will require SLAM FC level of 31 at a CYA of 80.
A quick drain/refill may be in order....

It's going to be mid to upper 90's for the next few days and then maybe 100+ on Tuesday. It's a bit lateto do a full drain/refill - but you could do one IF you have a high rate drain pump AND you stayed by the pool the entire time the sun is up to hose down the peeble to help keep it moist.

Test your tap water for pH, TA and CH. Report your findings here.

I know, you're right! New learner here and buying liquid chlorine today! Thank you so much for the input! I agree I think I need to just bite the bullet and try to get my CH and CYA lowered before temps go up 40 degrees. I think i'll follow the no drain TFP method so the pebbletech is never exposed. I'll test the tap water when I get home today and post the results.

 

[five054life]

I have a few maybe dumb questions since I'm new to the testing as well as the chemical treatment. So I used the Pool Math calculator for my info above and I think my interpretation is the following:
CYA 75, FC 4, CC 0.5, CH 700, pH 8, TA 130
CSI 0.92
1. CYA: Too high- partial drain, as discussed above- 38% of pool water
2. FC : low (was 45 on 5/7 but this morning was 1)- I will buy and tx with liquid chlorine today- looks like 194 ounces, so 1.5 gallons of 12.5% liquid chlorine
3. CC- ok
4. CH: high. replace 34% of pool water
5. pH: A little high. 17oz of 20 baume muriatic acid
6. TA: low. Baking soda (even though it slightly raises pH)- pool math calculator says to get a TA of 450, I need 1,140 oz (142 cups, or 71 POUNDS) of baking soda. Would that make any sense???
7. CSI: high- Drain pool or decrease CH and pH

Questions:
1. Does that look right?? Seems like a lot of chemicals.
2. Do I just add one right after the other with the pump running??
3. Is there any particular order I should follow?
4. I think I will do the partial drain/refill tomorrow. Should I even bother adding anything other than chlorine today or just wait and retest my new pool water tomorrow??
5. After a drain and refill, how soon can I retest my water?

THANKS ALL!!!!!

 

[proavia]

TA of 130 is high. It needs to come down to 60-70.
Do NOT add any baking soda.

If you drain, keep the plaster/peeble wet.
I've used a hose to wet the sides down while the pool was draining/refilling.
The no drain exchange will work, but will use a lot more water.

If you were to drain, what type pump would you use ane how many GPM is it rated for?
What hose diameter would you use?

On refill, there will be no reason to increase your CH as long as your refill water has a CH around 200 or more. Evaporation and sibsequent top-off will increase the CH on its own. Chances are your entire 19000 gallons will evaporate each year.

 

[five054life]

TA of 130 is high. It needs to come down to 60-70.
Do NOT add any baking soda.

If you drain, keep the plaster/peeble wet.
I've used a hose to wet the sides down while the pool was draining/refilling.
The no drain exchange will work, but will use a lot more water.

If you were to drain, what type pump would you use ane how many GPM is it rated for?
What hose diameter would you use?

On refill, there will be no reason to increase your CH as long as your refill water has a CH around 200 or more. Evaporation and sibsequent top-off will increase the CH on its own. Chances are your entire 19000 gallons will evaporate each year.

THANK YOU!!! Oh my goodness I had written down the wrong range! So glad you clarified for me. Phew! No baking soda. Great.

My husband bought some small pump- not sure on the GPM (maybe I can look into it when I get home and see what make/model it is). Last few times we've pumped, we've attached a standard size garden hose to it. It took about 12 hours to pump about 50% of the pool water out. For tomorrow, I'm thinking i'll plan on removing about 30-40% of the water to reduce my CYA from 80 to 50 ish. Hopefully...

CH- ok thanks for that input. That makes sense!

 

[proavia]

THANK YOU!!! Oh my goodness I had written down the wrong range! So glad you clarified for me. Phew! No baking soda. Great.

My husband bought some small pump- not sure on the GPM (maybe I can look into it when I get home and see what make/model it is). Last few times we've pumped, we've attached a standard size garden hose to it. It took about 12 hours to pump about 50% of the pool water out. For tomorrow, I'm thinking i'll plan on removing about 30-40% of the water to reduce my CYA from 80 to 50 ish. Hopefully...

CH- ok thanks for that input. That makes sense!

Yeah - it will take forever with a garden hose.
See if it will accept a larger hose diameter. That will provide better output and make the drain go quicker. The faster you can drain and refill the better.
Your other option is to rent a pump from Home Depot. I believe they are $50/day and comes with a large 50' long hose.
Are you in the City of Phoenix or the 'burbs? Check with your city to see where you can drain to. Here in Chandler, we drain to the sanitary sewer cleanout in our frint yards.

After you are done, run the pool pump for about 30 minutes, test everything again (no need to do CYA if a complete drain/refill) and post your results here. We will get you headed in the correct direction.

Also, fill out your signature with pool, pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info.
Be detailed on the equipment. See mine and others for inspiration.
This assists us in providing you help without needing to ask for this important info each time.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/account/signature

 

[five054life]

Yeah - it will take forever with a garden hose.
See if it will accept a larger hose diameter. That will provide better output and make the drain go quicker. The faster you can drain and refill the better.
Your other option is to rent a pump from Home Depot. I believe they are $50/day and comes with a large 50' long hose.
Are you in the City of Phoenix or the 'burbs? Check with your city to see where you can drain to. Here in Chandler, we drain to the sanitary sewer cleanout in our frint yards.

After you are done, run the pool pump for about 30 minutes, test everything again (no need to do CYA if a complete drain/refill) and post your results here. We will get you headed in the correct direction.

Also, fill out your signature with pool, pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info.
Be detailed on the equipment. See mine and others for inspiration.
This assists us in providing you help without needing to ask for this important info each time.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/account/signature

I’m in Maricopa county and can (and have) drained to the front of our property into a little hole that’s set up there. Maybe that’s called the sanitary sewer clean out ha.
I thought I did do the signature but I will check it and try to add some more details!

I won’t do a full drain, probably just a partial drain and simultaneous refill tomorrow. Should I even bother with any chemical today ie chlorine?

 

[five054life]

Another question. I’ve been testing my water when I wake up at 5:30am. I’m reading some other articles it says to test water after the pump has been running for 30 minutes. Also also to run the pump for 10 minutes or more after adding chemicals. Our pump runs 8am-midnight so it’s off from midnight to 8am and therefore is off both when I test my water and when I add chemicals. Should I change that?

 

[proavia]

I’m in Maricopa county and can (and have) drained to the front of our property into a little hole that’s set up there. Maybe that’s called the sanitary sewer clean out ha.
I thought I did do the signature but I will check it and try to add some more details!

I won’t do a full drain, probably just a partial drain and simultaneous refill tomorrow. Should I even bother with any chemical today ie chlorine?

A partial drain has limited returns on the time and water investment.
If only doing a partial drain - keep the chlorine in the target range - you don't want algae getting a foot hold.

Starting a drain right before sundown and letting it drain all night may give the best benefit.
Get up early and start hosing down the plaster. Keep it damp when the sun is up.

Another question. I’ve been testing my water when I wake up at 5:30am. I’m reading some other articles it says to test water after the pump has been running for 30 minutes. Also also to run the pump for 10 minutes or more after adding chemicals. Our pump runs 8am-midnight so it’s off from midnight to 8am and therefore is off both when I test my water and when I add chemicals. Should I change that?

Pump should be running for 15-30 minutes before testing.
Pump should be running when adding chemicals and remain running for 15-30 minutes to help evenly mix the chemical additions.

Do you have a VS (variable speed) pump?
Are you on SRP or APS?
Run the pump for a reason - skimming, SWG production, etc. Some of us like running our pump 24/7 at low rpm.
With SRP, I run 24/7 - 1200 rpm for 20 hours and 2900 rpm for 4 hours (IFCS needs higher rpm) - and it costs less than $20/month.
I like continuous skimmer and allowing my SWG to make chlorine all throughout the day/night/

 

[five054life]

A partial drain has limited returns on the time and water investment.
If only doing a partial drain - keep the chlorine in the target range - you don't want algae getting a foot hold.

Starting a drain right before sundown and letting it drain all night may give the best benefit.
Get up early and start hosing down the plaster. Keep it damp when the sun is up.


Pump should be running for 15-30 minutes before testing.
Pump should be running when adding chemicals and remain running for 15-30 minutes to help evenly mix the chemical additions.

Do you have a VS (variable speed) pump?
Are you on SRP or APS?
Run the pump for a reason - skimming, SWG production, etc. Some of us like running our pump 24/7 at low rpm.
With SRP, I run 24/7 - 1200 rpm for 20 hours and 2900 rpm for 4 hours (IFCS needs higher rpm) - and it costs less than $20/month.
I like continuous skimmer and allowing my SWG to make chlorine all throughout the day/night/

OK, I went ahead and added the chlorine using Pool Math. I also did a scrub and skim. I will start the drain tonight and the refill tomorrow morning. Good to know about the pump runtime – I will have to adjust that so it starts running by five or so in the morning.

All the other pump information you just told me is way over my head! I’d have to ask my husband about what type of pump it is specifically. I know it is Pentair brand, but that’s the extent of my knowledge. I will update my signature once I have more details!

 

[five054life]

A partial drain has limited returns on the time and water investment.
If only doing a partial drain - keep the chlorine in the target range - you don't want algae getting a foot hold.

Starting a drain right before sundown and letting it drain all night may give the best benefit.
Get up early and start hosing down the plaster. Keep it damp when the sun is up.


Pump should be running for 15-30 minutes before testing.
Pump should be running when adding chemicals and remain running for 15-30 minutes to help evenly mix the chemical additions.

Do you have a VS (variable speed) pump?
Are you on SRP or APS?
Run the pump for a reason - skimming, SWG production, etc. Some of us like running our pump 24/7 at low rpm.
With SRP, I run 24/7 - 1200 rpm for 20 hours and 2900 rpm for 4 hours (IFCS needs higher rpm) - and it costs less than $20/month.
I like continuous skimmer and allowing my SWG to make chlorine all throughout the day/night/

After talking e my husband, Yes we do have a new 1 year old Pentair VS pump. We are on APS. Currently he says we run it for 17 hours a day at about 2,700 rpm. He said that’s what we’ve had to do to address the algae on the walls and help prevent buildup. I told him that I THINK from TFP that the algae is a direct issue of low chlorine and now I’m wondering if we can actually change our settings to lower the rpm??? Also what is IFCS??

 

[proavia]

Pump speed and filtration rate have nothing to do with algae.
Algae is a chemical problem - lack of sufficient free chlorine.

You should be able to run your pool pump at a lower rpm for most of the day.
Once we kniw what equipmemt you hafe, including your pool cleaner, we can better help you set up your runtime rpms and possibly save on electricity costs as well.

IFCS = In Floor Cleaning System - it's popup heads on the floor that direct water to help clean the pool.
My pool is 25 years old and it was all the rage back then. There are better, more efficient ways to automatically clean pools nowadays.