Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

[UltraIntex]

Just a point about shocking. You mentioned you'd get 10 shocks out of the cal hypo. That is not what we mean by shocking. Read the pool school article on it and you will see what I mean. You will raise it to the level needed and then hold it there. There is no way to know how long this will take or how much it will take. Keeping the FC a little higher when the leaves drop will help next time around.


- Sent using Tapatalk

.
By 10 shocks I meant that if my SWG is capable of raising the FC to about 7 maximum which seems the case, then for shocking I would
need another 13ppm which equates to 1kg of dry chlorine which means 10 shocks for the box. That is if a full shock were needed in the future, with topping up requirements not calculated.

PS, leaves drop all year here as nearly all native trees are evergreen. There is no fall season for trees except for when it gets very hot and windy, then they tend to lose quite a few more than the rest of the time., but they constantly drop all year!

 

[UltraIntex]

I cant find the answer to this in the Pool School section.
When the PH rises when shocking, is it necessary to add acid to bring it back to normal level or will
the PH drop naturally when the FC returns to maintenance level?
Also, bearing in mind a CYA level of 50 and a shock level of FC20, at what level of FC is it safe to swim?
thanks

 

[y_not]

I cant find the answer to this in the Pool School section.
When the PH rises when shocking, is it necessary to add acid to bring it back to normal level or will
the PH drop naturally when the FC returns to maintenance level?
Also, bearing in mind a CYA level of 50 and a shock level of FC20, at what level of FC is it safe to swim?
thanks

You lower your pH to 7.2 before you start shocking. Then you shut off your SWG and do not turn it back on until you are done shocking and your FC levels return to normal.
Once you begin the shock process, ignore pH, don't even test it as it will report a false reading due to the high FC levels above 10.
It will return to normal as the FC drops on its own when you finish shocking.

Any FC level within the range given on the chart for your CYA level is safe to swim in.
However the algae isn't, so you should wait till the water is at least clear before you do a full swim session. Getting in if you need to brush, or check behind a light fixture for algae is fine.

What kit did you end up with for testing the high FC levels?

 

[UltraIntex]

Jury is still out on the FAS-DPD kit.
Taylor and Palintest do one but they appear to only be available in the US and I dont think these chems can be flown or
imported without a license.
The TFT-100 is an option BUT I am concerned that due to probably small sales volumes here, it may possibly have
been on the shelf for some time and the re-agents only have a shelf life of one year anyway. To fork out $130 for a kit where I only really need one part of
it and that the freshness/longevity is a concern, is a sticking point.
I have emailed Taylor in the US and asked them about distribution of their FAS-DPD kit which is only about $22 in the US.

I do wonder how Aussies manage to shock properly without this test being generally available here.

 

[chem geek]

I do wonder how Aussies manage to shock properly without this test being generally available here.

They don't. They just guess, but that's also the case for many pools in the U.S. as well. Many don't test for CYA either. It's part of what makes the shock, algaecide, phosphate remover, clarifier, flocculant products sell so well -- high margin products that wouldn't be needed if proper testing and FC/CYA ratios were maintained.

 

[y_not]

.....
The TFT-100 is an option BUT I am concerned that due to probably small sales volumes here, it may possibly have
been on the shelf for some time and the re-agents only have a shelf life of one year anyway. To fork out $130 for a kit where I only really need one part of
it and that the freshness/longevity is a concern, is a sticking point.
....

The re-agents have a shelf life of far, far longer than 1 yr when properly stored. That is simply a recommendation and by no means true. Even Taylor themselves when you get the right people will tell you otherwise.
See this thread here for how to tell when the re-agents go bad, which are listed in the tip section for each test. As well as many other tips.

As far as duplicating what you already have for tests. Think of it this way, the quality of the re-agents in that kit, as well as the pH test block and the tests themselves are far superior to nearly any other brand out there.
Not to mention this test kit allows you to incorporate things like a drop based salt water test.

You mentioned you use strips? These simply cannot be trusted in their accuracy nor consistency, ie. repeatability. If this is what you use for daily testing, a drop based kit is highly recommended due to it's accuracy and consistency. You also mentioned that you get your water tested at an extension service of some kind @ $7/pop!
The 'very expensive' system they use to test your water is not really all that accurate or consistent. Many pool stores down there as well as here use the same types of systems and the results are just simply far, far too inconsistent to be relied on or trusted.

You would do yourself and your pool a great favor by purchasing your own kit. That $7 you pay and the trip there and back, the kit would more than pay for itself over time. Not to mention the guesswork of chemical additions to the pool.

 

[UltraIntex]

The $7 is for a salt test only and their machine is very accurate (it's a several thousand dollar machine), plus salt needs to be checked very infrequently. I have only used the extension service to check on the accuracy of my salt strips AND the Palintest salt test drop method which frankly leaves a lot to be desired as the range is way too wide in each band. The salt strips proved perfectly adequate when checked against the machine.
And the other strips for FC and PH etc have also proven to be both sufficiently accurate when tested against a dropper kit and are hugely more convenient to use on a daily basis.

I realise you are a fan of the TF kit and that it is associated with this forum but I have managed to keep the pool perfectly clean and clear with the testing I have had available.
As I have said, the algae problem was from poor winter cleaning not test kit deficiencies.
Granted I probably should have got the TF kit from the start but I now have to live with what I have already.
Or, to put it another way, I have at the moment, in place, a self-imposed fiscal moratorium on all expenditure not classified as absolutely essential.
A FAS-DPD kit probably falls into the latter category (in a rather 1st world, Western and rather decadent way!), but anything beyond that, at the present moment in time, is questionable.


Now I have spoken to Palintest in Australia and they have no idea what a FAS-DPD test is or that their US arm sells it. He tried to sell me a $600 machine.
Then told me CYA isnt used in a salt water pool. Then told me that you dont need to test water when shocking: "just throw in a bucket"
I said " and how do you know if that bucket was enough and how do you know if you are holding the chlorine level long enough to kill the algae and how much to add"?
He had no answer for that.
And these people are testing 'specialists'.
I despair.

 

[UltraIntex]

Ok, in the absence of availability of a standalone FAS-DPD test here, I am going to try what I shall hereinafter refer to as the 'Palintest Bucket Method' of shocking.
Fortunately, with the help of the good people on this forum I have at least a good idea of how much needs to go into the bucket and what form of chlorine to put into it.
The rest will be pure Palintest method.
Are there any sure signs that I have the algae beaten so that when I let the FC drop back to normal, it wont come back?
Can you let me know why I cant use the SWG until the levels are back to normal? will it damage it?
thanks

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Ok, in the absence of availability of a standalone FAS-DPD test here, I am going to try what I shall hereinafter refer to as the 'Palintest Bucket Method' of shocking.
Fortunately, with the help of the good people on this forum I have at least a good idea of how much needs to go into the bucket and what form of chlorine to put into it.
The rest will be pure Palintest method.
Are there any sure signs that I have the algae beaten so that when I let the FC drop back to normal, it wont come back?
Can you let me know why I cant use the SWG until the levels are back to normal? will it damage it?
thanks

What type of chlorine test do you have? Do you have OTO or DPD with your pH block? OTO reads chlorine as yellow and DPD reads it as pink. If you have one with a range of zero to five - just dilute the water 2:1 to measure 2-10 and 3:1 to measure 3-15 and 4:1 to measure 4-20 etc. It's harder the higher the dilution as and the accuracy gets pretty lousy. But pretend your shock level was 15 - you could set the kit for 3:1 using distilled water and pool water - check to see you had a solid "5" on the test scale and then try again with 4:1 and if you came in under 5 but more than 3 then you'd be pretty close.

The downside of this is that unless you have super color vision the difference between "3" and "5" can be difficulty to see. Also you will be unable to perform either the CC test (looking for cc's less than 0.5) or the OCLT (overnight chlorine loss test). These are how we know when to stop maintaining shock levels.

Without either of these criteria I would advise you to blast the pool with a shock level between the normal shock level advised here and the mustard algae level advised here. Then when things appear clear - go another couple of days at these levels. After that let things drop back down and try to do the OCLT when you are under 10ppm. The best you can tell is if you have 0-2ppm loss which isn't good enough for our normal test but it's better than no test at all. If you pass (meaning you see "0" loss rather than 2ppm loss) then I would cry YIPPIE. If you can test cc's (I think the DPD test can - try for less than or equal to 0.5ppm of CC's if your test can get to that level of accuracy - if it can't just do your best.

The advice here is geared towards a science approach and sadly with a lack of tools you are hampered. Some of this is self imposed - some not. Just remember that the cost of your chlroine to fight this is high and if you fail to eliminate the algae you'll be buying more. It may be worthwhile to look into Polyquat algaecide as a future preventative - it's not cheap but it might be cheaper than the cost of cleanup next time.

 

[UltraIntex]

What type of chlorine test do you have? Do you have OTO or DPD with your pH block? OTO reads chlorine as yellow and DPD reads it as pink. If you have one with a range of zero to five - just dilute the water 2:1 to measure 2-10 and 3:1 to measure 3-15 and 4:1 to measure 4-20 etc. It's harder the higher the dilution as and the accuracy gets pretty lousy. But pretend your shock level was 15 - you could set the kit for 3:1 using distilled water and pool water - check to see you had a solid "5" on the test scale and then try again with 4:1 and if you came in under 5 but more than 3 then you'd be pretty close.

The downside of this is that unless you have super color vision the difference between "3" and "5" can be difficulty to see. Also you will be unable to perform either the CC test (looking for cc's less than 0.5) or the OCLT (overnight chlorine loss test). These are how we know when to stop maintaining shock levels.

Without either of these criteria I would advise you to blast the pool with a shock level between the normal shock level advised here and the mustard algae level advised here. Then when things appear clear - go another couple of days at these levels. After that let things drop back down and try to do the OCLT when you are under 10ppm. The best you can tell is if you have 0-2ppm loss which isn't good enough for our normal test but it's better than no test at all. If you pass (meaning you see "0" loss rather than 2ppm loss) then I would cry YIPPIE. If you can test cc's (I think the DPD test can - try for less than or equal to 0.5ppm of CC's if your test can get to that level of accuracy - if it can't just do your best.

The advice here is geared towards a science approach and sadly with a lack of tools you are hampered. Some of this is self imposed - some not. Just remember that the cost of your chlroine to fight this is high and if you fail to eliminate the algae you'll be buying more. It may be worthwhile to look into Polyquat algaecide as a future preventative - it's not cheap but it might be cheaper than the cost of cleanup next time.

Many thanks for your detailed and helpful reply.
I have the DPD zero to five test, so I will try and follow your guidance for this.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Good luck! Remember dpd can bleach out so you may get false zero chlorine results... Try a greater dilution if it happens when you are expecting high chlorine.


Sent via Tapatalk...

 

[UltraIntex]

Can I use the SWG to help maintain the shock level?

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Can I use the SWG to help maintain the shock level?

Yes, but when you get to the OCLT you will turn it off. Also remember that using the SWG at a high rate can reduce the life of the cell. My suggestion is for you to use it like normal but with your chlorine cost you will need to weigh the cost of a slight reduction in cell life vs chlorine.

When this is all over you may want to adjust how much chlorine you maintain.

Sent via Tapatalk...

 

[UltraIntex]

When this is all over you may want to adjust how much chlorine you maintain.

When this is all over..... I will need a holiday!

 

[UltraIntex]

Re: Pool Opening: Algae has lost: THANK YOU

Just wanted to give a big thank you to those who helped me with this as I think I have the problem under control now. Pool
looks glossy and crystal clear. Special thanks to Y-not and UnderWaterVanya for their dogged persistence with their advice.
There is no way I could have solved this problem without this forum. I know you guys do this every day and it must get real
repetitive to answer the same questions over and over, which makes your help even more admirable, thanks.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Re: Pool Opening: Algae has lost: THANK YOU

Just wanted to give a big thank you to those who helped me with this as I think I have the problem under control now. Pool looks glossy and crystal clear. Special thanks to Y-not and UnderWaterVanya for their dogged persistence with their advice.

There is no way I could have solved this problem without this forum. I know you guys do this every day and it must get real
repetitive to answer the same questions over and over, which makes your help even more admirable, thanks.

My thoughts are with those members on the east coast, dealing with this terrible storm.

[attachment=0:3od7mlpm]aftershock5 00v.jpg[/attachment:3od7mlpm]

It's reward enough to know that you have learned more about how to take care of your pool. Without the FAS-DPD you're guessing about the OCLT so I would maintain high chlorine levels a little longer than you think you need to so the problem doesn't lurk waiting to pounce at the smallest drop in FC! Keep the chlorine levels at least equal to the target listed in the chart here for SWG sanitized pools to keep things sparkling - your DPD kit should work great at the 60 CYA target levels. Make sure your CYA is at least the minimum listed (60) for the SWG pool - if you lose too much chlorine and the runtime on the cell is too much you could try pushing up to 70 or even 80 - but with 80 your target will require you use a diluted sample for testing which is a pain. Raising the CYA will make shocking harder if you ever have to but it reduces the wear and tear on the SWG and allows the FC to maintain better during the sunlight so it's really a balancing act. With your cost of chlorine - you'd be best to err on the side of caution and run a little high and simply replace the cell when it dies.

Oh and I'm in North Carolina - a few hundred miles from the coast - the storm mostly passed to the north of us. The only impact here so far was some 40-45mph (60-70kph) wind gusts yesterday that mainly shook our leaves out of the trees. Today there is a less than 50% chance for some light rain - the brunt of this storm hit much farther north - we were very lucky.