Pool newbie -- Friend with pool allergy

Jump to latest Follow Reply
B

buckweet1980

0
Jun 19, 2017
20
Lucas, TX
Have a friend who gets an allergy rash any time she comes over to our pool / hot-tub.. Obviously the first thing you'd think is chemical imbalance.. I check them, I take water samples to the pool builder and they are all within recommended spec. No one else gets any rashes, just her.. And it seems she only gets it when she uses the hot tub, so I'm thinking its a heat related chlorine (chloramines?) allergy. Anyone heard of that? I'm thinking that the heat is causing her pores to open up and then the irritation sets in.

Our pool and tub have shared water like every other common pool, the spa overflows into the pool and water is exchange daily. I ordered some of that pre-swim, body wash and post-swim lotion for her to try hoping that it'll help. I'm not sure how optimistic I am of it working though.

One thing I have wondered is if it were to switch to a salt-water pool would this help? The cost doesn't concern me, I just want it to help.
 
Hi Buckweet! - welcome to TFP!

I'm willing to bet that a pool builder's idea of "spec" isn't aligned with TFP principles. Much of the pool industry refuses to acknowledge the relationship between chlorine and CYA. This refusal results in a standard FC recommendation that is typically too low to achieve proper chemical balance. On top of that, their testing methods are also suspect.

Our go-to / out-of-the-gate recommendations are to take control of your pool by learning about chemical interactions and realistic FC ranges, and order one of two accurate test kits: the Taylor K2006 or the TF-100.

When you get your kit, post results in a format like this:

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

Expert TFP members can then guide you with recommendations to get your water is perfect as possible. It's possible that your friend has a sensitivity that's beyond your control, but it's also very possible that outdate industry "specs" have mislead you and a little insight and change of mindset will make a big difference.

Your water already has some salt. You can add more if you like. Many people enjoy the feel of a higher salt content and claim their skin feels better after swimming. You can also install a saltwater chlorine generator, but at the end the day you'd still have a pool sanitized by chlorine.
 
I have the K2006 test kit actually, just aquired it last week.. Two things I know that are out of whack compared to TFP and the industry is my CYA is high and chlorine is way too low.. However everyone else says it's within spec. So to be truthful I'm still learning on what to be skeptical of right now. I even had the pool builder tell me some things which I know are BS, but I mentioned a few things from what you read on a forum to them and they think people on those forums are crazy.. Which makes me dumbfounded, but it's just like anyone else. Opinions are many times formed based on experience more-so than real in the face facts.

In any case, I appreciate the assistance. Regarding the friend, it's my understanding is that Chloramines are the real culprit on causing allergies vs actual chlorine? So my thinking on the SWG is that it's not supposed to have Chloramines due to the difference process? Also, if I were to add salt to the pool how much would be needed? I didn't see any mention of this on the TFP Pool School page. I don't think I'd want as much as needed for a SWG?
 
buckweet1980 said:
I have the K2006 test kit actually, just acquired it last week.. Two things I know that are out of whack compared to TFP and the industry is my CYA is high and chlorine is way too low.. However everyone else says it's within spec. So to be truthful I'm still learning on what to be skeptical of right now.
Click to expand...

Well done on the kit! Already today I've read 3 different threads where a poster is willing to spend hundreds on pool $tore products that do nothing, yet refuse to buy a kit.

Skepticism is good too - I like your style. The more you inform ourselves the better off we are. The FC/CYA "debate" is interesting because of the lack of debate! If you press a "traditionalist", they won't cite any data or studies. The 1-3 ppm standard is basically just a habit with no science behind it. There wouldn't be much to talk about if it just stuck around as urban legend, but nearly all stores and most builders actively perpetuate it! Some interesting, solid studies of the CYA relationship have been posted here. I'll try to dig them up if someone doesn't do it for me first.

SWG is an alternative way to introduce chlorine into the water. The interactions of FC, CYA and CC remain the same. I've seen recommendations to add ~1000 ppm of salt to a non-SWG pool. You may want to test for your current level before taking action.
 
buckweet1980 said:
I have the K2006 test kit actually, just aquired it last week.. Two things I know that are out of whack compared to TFP and the industry is my CYA is high and chlorine is way too low.. However everyone else says it's within spec. So to be truthful I'm still learning on what to be skeptical of right now. I even had the pool builder tell me some things which I know are BS, but I mentioned a few things from what you read on a forum to them and they think people on those forums are crazy.. Which makes me dumbfounded, but it's just like anyone else. Opinions are many times formed based on experience more-so than real in the face facts.

In any case, I appreciate the assistance. Regarding the friend, it's my understanding is that Chloramines are the real culprit on causing allergies vs actual chlorine? So my thinking on the SWG is that it's not supposed to have Chloramines due to the difference process? Also, if I were to add salt to the pool how much would be needed? I didn't see any mention of this on the TFP Pool School page. I don't think I'd want as much as needed for a SWG?
Click to expand...

This is very typical of those that think they are "in the know" but in reality have no real basis for what they think they know. I found out long ago that a forum of actual experienced people provide far more accurate information than supposed "experts". You see this in most fields. I also keep marine fish and you'd be surprised at how little accurate information aquarium store workers know about anything related to the field they work in.
 
So here's what I came up with my tests today.. had to wait since I just shocked it due to a pool party saturday..

FC = 3.6, used the .2 method on K2006 tester.
CC = didn't register due to just shocking? Used .2 method again..
pH = 7.6
TA = 100
CH = 230
CYA = 70-75 (very hard to tell when the black dot on the Taylor test is really gone)..

CYA was 76 the other day when I had it tested at the pool store who uses a computer analysis machine. However we just got a lot of rain on sunday so the pool is a bit above capacity where it's normally kept. So I assume its diluting it a bit.
 
The pool industry will say your FC is high and your CYA is fine. TFP (and science) say that your FC is low and your CYA is high*. Your friend's skin says your water isn't ok.

Which way are you leaning?

* unless you had a SWG, in which case it's just about right. If I were in TX, I can assure you I'd have one!
 
My friends skin says the water isn't OK, but the 11 other people's skin at the party say its fine.. I can tell you that the FC was at 10 the other week, got way high because the chlorinator was cranked up by the pool builder when they made a visit, her skin reacted much worse that time. When the chlorine was that high all the other parameters tested about the same as they are now, CC was only .2 away from FC..

Last saturday everyone was in the pool from 1pm till about midnight, no one has mentioned anything about their skin breaking out. Yet when she got into the hot tub that night (around 8pm) she started itching pretty quickly. I think she has a heat + chlorine allergy personally, eczema or whatever.


I'm really thinking about going salt so I don't have to mess around with this chlorine stuff anymore, but I've read many thing (and people I know commenting) say to not do SWG down here because of the coping stones getting eaten away due to them being softer materials.. My brother had salt in phoenix and he loved it. So I'm not sure how to address that, some people have sealed the stones and it works I've read. Partly my reasoning is reading how CYA is the devil on this forum, yet all of the chlorine pucks have it. My alternative is to use straight chlorine, however I've not seen chlorine bottles around here in the stores that have the high concentration. So that doesn't seem to be a viable option to me, I also don't want to be pouring in bottles all the time either.
 
buckweet1980 said:
I'm really thinking about going salt so I don't have to mess around with this chlorine stuff anymore, but I've read many thing (and people I know commenting) say to not do SWG down here because of the coping stones getting eaten away due to them being softer materials...
Click to expand...

Chlorine is chlorine is chlorine:

2 NaCl(aq) + 2 H2O(l) ----> 2 Na+(aq) + 2 OH-(aq) + H2(g) + Cl2(g)

Salt Water systems are chlorine generators. Lots of TFP users maintain them without issue...

I see your CYA is 80 (round up from 75) your minimum FC should be 6 not 3.5. You should keep your FC at 9 - 11 at all times. Your friend could be reacting to bad stuff in the pool because your FC is not being maintained at your CYA level. CC can come and go as well, strong sunlight burns up CC quickly.
 
Bleach is 8.25% clorine.

Did you say cc was .2 away from fc, as in cc was really high or fc was really low?

A clorine bath is a treatment for eczema, there is a test that your friend can do to check if it's clorine or something else by filling a bathtub up and adding 1 ppm to it. A knowledge expert from here might recommend they test that. A proper tfp will be no more harsh than that.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
jaduck said:
I see your CYA is 80 (round up from 75) your minimum FC should be 6 not 3.5. You should keep your FC at 9 - 11 at all times. Your friend could be reacting to bad stuff in the pool because your FC is not being maintained at your CYA level. CC can come and go as well, strong sunlight burns up CC quickly.
Click to expand...

She had a worse reaction when the FC was up at 10 vs where it's at now at 3.6.. CC was never higher than .2 difference from FC whether it was at 10 or 3.6.. At least based on the numbers I came up with, along with what the pool company was telling me..
 
I would HIGHLY suggest that your friend see an allergist/dermatologist to diagnosis her problem...Just for kicks, you should perform an OCLT and make sure you are losing 1 ppm or less of FC overnight. If you pass the OCLT, your CC's are 0.5 or less and your pool is crystal clear, there is not much else you can do to help her. I would also recommend you lower you CYA to at least 60 (I guess if you have super high sunlight 80 is ok, but that is a lot of reagent to use for testing, plus having to keep you FC so high and not being able to test the pH if the FC is >= 10)

I would also consider installing a SWG (your CYA is at a good level for the SWG, and FC targets are lower using the SWG)

HTH,

Tony
 
cfherrman said:
Bleach is 8.25% clorine.

Did you say cc was .2 away from fc, as in cc was really high or fc was really low?

A clorine bath is a treatment for eczema, there is a test that your friend can do to check if it's clorine or something else by filling a bathtub up and adding 1 ppm to it. A knowledge expert from here might recommend they test that. A proper tfp will be no more harsh than that.
Click to expand...

Apologies if not clear (still learning terminology here).. On the tests the FC today said 3.6 and i tested for CC ( or TC depending on the test), and it is showing .2ppm which is within spec from all the literature I've read.. It showed the same .2ppm difference when it was at 10ppm FC too..
 
jaduck said:
I would HIGHLY suggest that your friend see an allergist/dermatologist to diagnosis her problem...Just for kicks, you should perform an OCLT and make sure you are losing 1 ppm or less of FC overnight. If you pass the OCLT, your CC's are 0.5 or less and your pool is crystal clear, there is not much else you can do to help her. I would also recommend you lower you CYA to at least 60 (I guess if you have super high sunlight 80 is ok, but that is a lot of reagent to use for testing, plus having to keep you FC so high and not being able to test the pH if the FC is >= 10)

I would also consider installing a SWG (your CYA is at a good level for the SWG, and FC targets are lower using the SWG)

HTH,

Tony
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info.. newbie question here.. Since I'm using the pucks, the CYA will always go up. Since I have to drain the water (and water isn't cheap here in TX) to lower this down to 50ish, how long will it take to get back up to 75 using the pucks? The pool is only about a month old, so either the pool builder put a bunch of stabilizer in it or CYA just rapidly rises with these pucks.. I ask this question to the pool company store guy and he said it takes years which I think is incorrect?

I don't want to have to keep draining and re-filling this pool if it is one of those things that rises rapidly. And is a reason I'm interested in SWG (among other reasons)..
 
buckweet1980 said:
Thanks for the info.. newbie question here.. Since I'm using the pucks, the CYA will always go up. Since I have to drain the water (and water isn't cheap here in TX) to lower this down to 50ish, how long will it take to get back up to 75 using the pucks? The pool is only about a month old, so either the pool builder put a bunch of stabilizer in it or CYA just rapidly rises with these pucks.. I ask this question to the pool company store guy and he said it takes years which I think is incorrect?

I don't want to have to keep draining and re-filling this pool if it is one of those things that rises rapidly. And is a reason I'm interested in SWG (among other reasons)..
Click to expand...

My advice, stop taking advice from the pool store, and listen to the experts here! Pucks add FC, CYA and acid to your pool and I would only use them when going on vacation. I would use bleach (Walmart Great Value), bleach with a Stenner pump, or a SWG and never have a pH or CYA problem again! Your CYA of 75 -80 is due to Pucks, plain and simple, stop using them and have a TFP! As you are finding out it does not take years for your CYA to get high.
 
Pucks add nearly as much stabilizer as chlorine. So if you're adding pucks to keep your chlorine at 3ppm, you're probably adding 2.5 ppm of stabilizer per day... Which works out to about 75 ppm in a month.

Pucks are terrible. If you must use solid chlorine, use calcium hypochlorite... Your calcium can get much higher before causing problems, but will still eventually need a drain.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply