Pool has been unused at least 2 years....

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The marketing of the M5 is confounding. It's an incredible machine, and you'd think it would be sold more broadly. That said, it's worth it to find on locally or have him shipped from as close as possible. They reserve this model for smaller dealers/builder-suppliers for some reason. Or, the Z5...as you mention.
 
We bought a hose and manual vacuum. The cost was minimal.

Clogged up the sand filter in about 24 hours.... I really put a hurting on it stirring up muck. Backwash worked perfectly. I am just working on mechanical removal of the fine gunk left. All big stuff is out, and we had most of the fine stuff cleared up until we unclogged all the jet lines.

We are dealing with an entire house that was neglected for 2 years, well probably longer. New roof, A/C including ducts, new floors almost entirely throughout, new kitchen counters and back splash, new fixtures, re doing one bathroom, changing a lot in the 2nd, paint everything, replace some doors, lots of yard work clean up left and I am sure there is more. We are coming in right at $50k under market price and the house is 100% paid for AND it has a pool that the appraiser/real estate agents value at $0...

I had hopes to have it cleaned up for this weekend, but I think we might get in it other than work for next weekend, I have a gun show so coming home to a swim afterwords would be nice. Gun shows are rewarding and tiring...
 
A/C including ducts? Why is that?

We had to add a duct/vent in one room due to the past owner turning the garage into a dining room. They did a good job BUT did not increase the A/C size nor put a vent in the room. That was just ONE of the things we had to fix. There was "significant" work to be done to each room. It was worth it as it was almost all work we could do. It took us 3 months to get the house move in ready. I feel your pain!



Kim
 
Kim, the duct work at minimum would have to be re wrapped in insulation and several areas that had been crushed at some point in the life of the house (1968). We fixed several areas of the ceiling where moisture dripped from the duct work. It came down to the inspector recommended replacement, the A/C guy said he could re wrap it if we needed to save money, but said if it was his house he would replace it. A 5 ton 16 seer unit. It cost more to replace everything, and we replaced everything down to all the vents. We also added a couple of vents since we had a 4 ton vs a 5 ton. The upgrade was only $300 to go from 13 seer 4 ton to 15 seer 5 ton. I am not complaining one bit, that A/C kicks some tail.

We are going to start moving stuff over this week for the rooms that are finished.

Anyway, now to the pool. I am buying another robot. I have $650 or so in credit to amazon (Free money from doing business!), so I might pick one up there. Is there a good dolphin that is not the Z5/M5? Any other bots to look for? I was going to for something that hits sides too now.

As far as the pool, we have got into a ritual since we got the filter on, and it is working, but I think a robot will help. We vacuum, backwash, brush, then backwash again if the pressure went up. We are virtually leaf free, just fine dust like settlement. We can see down to about 6-7 feet clear now. Just got to get it clear enough for the bottom of the dive well.
 
1968? I bet it is one neat house. No wonder you have so much work to do.

Good job on replacing the AC and vents. AC is a good thing and one that works well.............heaven!

It sounds like you have a great handle on the pool. It will be clear soon. Time and chlorine are your friends!

Kim
 
I wish I had a great handle on the pool! It was cleaner last week, this week is a smaller particle from unclogging all the pipes.

I am using bleach generously... Nobody is swimming and I am sure the organics are sucking it up. Testing is difficult with as much as we are kicking up.

Dolphin Nautilus is looking like a candidate right now...
 
Any thoughts on flocking to get the fine sediment? I have no signs of Algae, I am getting FC to shock level everyday based on my calculated numbers of CYA of 30 and 25k pool. Actually adding more chlorine than called for, I know organics are eating it up. I am not testing as much as a SLAM since I don't have an algae problem, I have a sediment problem.

PH is swinging from aeration and daily rain. I don't want to try to change it chemically since it is staying in the 7-8 range without my intervention. I do have much less sediment in the pool, I know this since every day after each cleaning less settles in the shallow end. I found a clump of leaves while vacuuming that clogged the vacuum in the deep end, I got the leaf rake out and found one good clump of leaves and then got 5-10 on the following passes. I clean it like a grid, and go from 3 directions. If I could reach all four directions I would. Basically, I want my kid to swim this weekend, if a floc treatment will help get the fine stuff out, I am OK with the expense. I do have a Dolphin coming tomorrow, that might help the cause by running it AFTER I manually vacuum what I can see, and run it for a few cycles.
 
FLOC is a waste of money and can cause more problems and it is best to skip it. You have a sand filter and it takes much longer to clear dirty water, so you might want to add a little DE to your sand filter: http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/133-add-de-to-a-sand-filter

You really need to follow the SLAM process to the letter, the harder you hit it the quicker it will go. Keep SLAMing until you pass ALL of the following:
1. The water is crystal clear (you failed this one).
2. You have less than 0.5 CC.
3. You pass the overnight chlorine loss test.

You should really do your best to manually vacuum to ensure that you have removed all of the organics. Organics=keep slamming and will eat your FC and you want your FC to kill the stuff that is too fine to vaccum or scoop out. SLAMing means getting your FC to shock level and maintaining it at shock level until you pass all 3 criteria above.

Re-read the SLAMing instructions to make sure that you are on track:
http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/125-slam-shock-level-and-maintain-shockingl

It is safe to swim if all these are met: a) you can see the bottom of the deep end, b) FC less than or equal to shock level for your CYA, c) CC is less than or equal to 0.5, d) PH is between 7.2 and 8.0.
 

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armsdealer said:
Any thoughts on flocking to get the fine sediment? I have no signs of Algae, I am getting FC to shock level everyday based on my calculated numbers of CYA of 30 and 25k pool. Actually adding more chlorine than called for, I know organics are eating it up. I am not testing as much as a SLAM since I don't have an algae problem, I have a sediment problem.

PH is swinging from aeration and daily rain. I don't want to try to change it chemically since it is staying in the 7-8 range without my intervention. I do have much less sediment in the pool, I know this since every day after each cleaning less settles in the shallow end. I found a clump of leaves while vacuuming that clogged the vacuum in the deep end, I got the leaf rake out and found one good clump of leaves and then got 5-10 on the following passes. I clean it like a grid, and go from 3 directions. If I could reach all four directions I would. Basically, I want my kid to swim this weekend, if a floc treatment will help get the fine stuff out, I am OK with the expense. I do have a Dolphin coming tomorrow, that might help the cause by running it AFTER I manually vacuum what I can see, and run it for a few cycles.
Click to expand...

You aren't done with the SLAM if you are still consuming Chlorine like that. I wouldn't suggest the flocculant as it may cause you trouble. This pool was in bad shape and the SLAM needs to be done before anyone swims. What are your recent CC levels? Its really important you don't let anyone swim if they are higher than 0.5
 
I still get readings of 0 CYA and I have dissolved 5.5lbs into the pool.

Chlorine stays O/N but vanishes quickly during the day. I am targeting 12-15, but it has gotten as low as 5.

PH is high over 8. We are vacuuming daily, but this weekend we are out of town for a gun show. We will be moving beds over Monday, so I will be able to address the pool more often. Only thing inside not finished is the Kitchen and one Bath room and a little painting. We can extend our time in the evenings by putting the kids down to bed at the new house. The Robot is a great help. It is getting things we can't see, and kicking up stuff to the sand filter. I had to backwash twice while the Dolphin ran.

We did have clear water, and almost all leaves gone (say a hundred or less on the bottom), then we unclogged all the jets.... wish I did that before we drained and cleaned the pool. Plan for Saturday afternoon is to 100% vacuum the pool, then let the dolphin go at it again with the pump back on. Starting Monday I am going to try to get back up to slam levels, I still don't have signs of algae, and I want to keep it that way. I am not sure what to do about CYA levels, I thought I would get some sort of reading after a full week.

I know I need to address TA, CH, and PH. I am going to have to do some juggling raising and lowering PH until I get it right. I am dumbfounded by CYA. I introduced it in the deep end in filter socks and let it dissolve completely because I have been doing frequent back washes, the sand filter is removing lots of gun. The PSI can jump from 10 to 20 in no time. I am not ready to ad DE to the filter yet, I am doing 3 back washes some days. We did put a filter sock over one of the filter baskets, it is catching some gunk, putting over both starved the pump. I was a little discouraged, but with a full on mechanical filtration attack from the robot, vacuum and sand filter I think I can finally get things cleared up. Having the robot go to work 3 hours tirelessly after spending an hour or two vacuuming, scrubbing and back washing is a big help. It also kicks gunk off the bottom better than I could manually to get to the filter, then moves lots of dirt from the deep end to the shallow end for easy vacuuming. It will get there.
 
Running the filter without de can ruin the filter qnd to may have to replace your grids.. The de medium helps clear the pool quickly, too. Please make sure you take apart your filter and clean the grids, add appropriate amount of de ASAP.
 
Sediment level is down to near zero thanks to the Dolphin. The first round it kicked up so much it took my wife 2 hours vacuuming through the filter. Second round I vacuumed straight to waste. Now after the Dolphin runs there isn't a cloud kicked up, but it is filling up with sediment/leaves on the deep end. Really, the only place sediment is settling right now is on my steps. The Dolphin made it on the steps once.

I am clueless where CYA is at. I have 5.5lb dissolved, essentially 0 on the test.

I lost 1.5 FC last night, I did get hit with a couple hours of sunlight and my pool was the pool hot spot last night for toad breading. Took a couple hours to filter all the eggs out. I really don't think I a dealing with an algae problem. IF I turn off all circulation, I can see 8 feet or so within a few hours. As soon as my Dolphin stops bringing up much from the dive well I am going to change over to the smaller cartridge filters and I think I am ready to pick up some DE to test in the sand filter. Its only a few bucks and a little goes a long way. A few days ago this pool was so discouraging with the fine sediment. Without the dolphin I may have had a fish pond.

I really like this forum, but I really don't like the one approach fixes everything mantra. If I would have stayed at Shock levels for the past two weeks while working on mechanical filtration I would have blown a ton of money on bleach. Sure I kept it 3-5 when it was really bad. Now that it is just about clear and getting lots of sun I am maintaining 10-15. I can't get a good read on CYA, it should be around 30, which gives me a shock level of 12, I am going to maintain that until the pool is clear. If need be I will run supplemental cartridge filters in line. I want this for my kid to swim.

I do need to raise CH, lower PH and figure out TA... Once I get those on track I think I am good to go. OH, and rain wreaks havoc on readings...
 
Arms, the SLAM mantra may sound prescriptive, but there's a reason for that. Complete oxidization of the water, accomplished by the "maintaining" part of the slam at (slightly above, actually) the correct (for one's cya) level, actually does make the water crystal clear to a level many don't realize -- eg. seeing the detail of a quarter on the deep end! Even with sediment. As you know, I had a ton!

It's not just about staving off algae...its about sanitizing the water to a truly safe level and ergo being able to go forward in a truly "trouble free" way ;)

(Although it should be said that "nascent" algae first turns up as cloudiness in the water, not sudden visible green, and many people who have cloudy water are actually just riding the line on not-quite-sanitized water...not saying that's necessarily going on in your case with the particulate, but it could be contributing to your cloudiness.)

In your case, you changed the water, but are still dealing with the stuff that had clogged your lines, which will have been full of pathogens. Algae or not, I'd sure like to feel comfortable that you've beaten it down ;)

While i understand why it was important to address your filtration issues, had you slammed then it would not have been the waste you think. Once your water had achieved complete oxidization, your chlorine demand would have dropped dramatically -- so if you HAD been slamming fully the last few weeks, the level of chlorine required would have followed a downward curve to a place where your daily dose would be much closer to normal maintenance anyway.

Eg. In the last few days of my swamp conversion, you may recall from my swamp pictures that the water was crystal clear and showing a pile of leaves in the corner ;) even with those leaves in the corner, I didn't have to add more than a jug of 6% to keep it above slam level...and my now "normal" use age is 2-3 ppm per day -- about the same!

Now that you have a working filter and a comparatively minimal amount of debris, your Slam -- if you maintain above slam level at all times and don't let it drop -- should be short work and give you a great baseline for a trouble free future in pool ownership. If its done correctly and you follow the cya:chlorine chart (see my sig) from here forward, it should be the last slam you'll ever have to do ;)

That's the point of the "mantra." It's just what reliably works!

Going forward, post a set of test numbers and bring your ph to about 7.2 for optimal pre-slam conditions. In general, you don't need to worry about TA until everything else is well in hand.
 
armsdealer, I was in your shoes 4 years ago. I purchased a foreclosure with a swamp in the backyard. The pool probably sat unused and open for about 2 years. I floundered badly for the first few months because I had so many things to fix before I could move in (plumbing leaks in the house, mold, etc etc) and after I moved in. Every system and appliance needed to be repaired or replaced, including the HVAC. A lot of headaches and a thinner wallet, but I've made it out to the other side.

The advice on this forum works. It is overwhelming to deal with a swamp when the rest of the house is in order and much more difficult when you have to work on the house, too. Please be patient and follow the advice here. We are here to help and we don't have anything to gain except passing on the knowledge we learned when taking care of our own pools.

The key is to hit the pool hard and often. Adding a little bleach here and there won't oxidize the organics in your pool and will allow the organic to breed... resulting in one step forward and two steps back. Shocking is a process and isn't a one time deal. The best way to save $ is to get the FC to shock level for your CYA and keep it there. Retest every hour and add more FC to get back to shock level. As you are able to hold FC, you can test and add bleach less frequently.

Think of this, you go to the doctor for a bad cold and he gives you a week of antibiotics, you take the first pill but don't feel 100%, so you quit, or you take one pill every few days. It takes time for the antibiotics to kill the bacteria and you have to take the pill everyday get better. It takes time to kill the organics in your pool, but it is possible if you follow the advice here.

Once you get your pool cleaned, you will quickly learn that it doesn't take much time or $ maintain the cleanliness. However, it will take work to get to a clean pool.

PS. If you monitor your chem levels, you will realize that rain doesn't wreak havoc on a properly maintained pool.
 
Well, I finally have all the gunk out. That little Dolphin is a miracle worker.

I now have sediment free water, but it is cloudy. Not near as clear as when we refilled. My CYA reading is at or near 0 after adding 5.5 pounds. After doing a little reading I discovered that bacteria found in sediment can convert CYA to ammonia! I don't have an ammonia test. I just hit the pool with 5 gallons of 6% bleach to bring FC back up, it was barely at 2. I will hit the stores for some CYA in the morning, and a lot more bleach. I feel better that we got the gunk out.

I am not losing much FC overnight, I had a drop of 2 when I did the overnight test. CC has been 1 or less every time I test.

So the plan for tomorrow.

Get some CYA going in the pool again!
Get FC to 15 and maintain
Ad acid to drop PH

I want to get TA, CA and Borates under control, but they all effect PH which is off the charts high for me right now.
 
So, got started a little late. The gas wasn't working. Plumber, A/C tech a phone call to Entergy and they all decided after half a day they all need to meet tomorrow at noon. I already have Cox scheduled for 8-10 tomorrow.

I got most of what I needed. I used muriatic acid to bring PH down to 7.2 range. I got 4lbs of CYA going in two filter socks (I did pre mix the little left and let it loose near the skimmer). I am finally getting a CYA reading, it was 30, but I think that it is not as mixed as thoroughly as it should be, I expect a lower result tomorrow. I added 2 96oz bottles of 6% chlorine and it brought my levels to right at 8. I added two more now to get into shock levels. I will not wait 30 more minutes to test again, the wife might kill me if I turn on all the lights again. Never throughout the day did I drop below 2 of FC, even though I was out of chlorine for most of the day. I due believe my chlorine and CYA eaters are gone or on decline. Whichever it is WAR is on all weekend. Memorial day 3 for $5 96oz 6% bleach seems like the best deal right now. Too bad limit is 6, we have been hitting them up daily (and I use it all daily)

I did put 5lbs of Calcium in the pool, my wife bought it and it was only $7 or so. It might raise it a few PPM, I found a pool supply store that sells it by the bag for much cheaper. I am thinking going with 3 bags, 90lbs, to get me in the 250 range. They recommended 6 bags and to go for 500....

I will also have to hit up a store for some borax and baking soda and I should have this box of money under control.

For what it is worth, a casual observer, my AC tech who use to maintain commercial pools says the water looks like it is a couple days away. Of course he suggested hammering it with tablets in the skimmers and a quick floc, but I am going to stick it out with the BBB for a while longer. Hopefully one day I am just feeding her bleach and dropping the dolphin in a couple times a week in the near future.
 

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