Pool cloudy, mostly in deep end

First of all...GO SOX!!


I can't believe that your CYA is zero. Both dichlor (granular shock) and trichlor (tablets) have CYA. You said you have shocked 5 times with 4 pounds each. You haven't really given complete pool information yet, but assuming 25,000 gallons just the shock would have raised your CYA to 48. When was it tested and by whom?

Many of the people on this forum have struggled with high CYA, and the only way to lower it once it is in there partial drains and refills. I would double check that test, preferably with your own kit (not strips).
 
Not sure what you are referring to as a "normal" kit? What were your test results? We'll help you if you are willing to learn :goodjob:

Please provide the following test results and let's see if we can get you headed in the right direction..

FC
CC
PH
TA
CH
CYA....should not be zero, unless you have been shocking with calcium hypochlorite?

Pool ownership takes some work....if you are ready for it (5-10mins of maint a day), you will find many on here willing to help you :goodjob:
 
this kit : http://www.thegreathardwarestore.com/Pr ... click=2744
I use HTH super shock for the pool available at walmart.


cya registered at zero. At the pool store it also registered at zero one week ago and two weeks ago. I have not added stabilizer yet.
the ph was 6.8-6.9, so i put some PH plus in tonight to bring it up to 7.2-7.4 atleast.
the chlorine was .5 so i put bleach in to bring it up to a high shock level (8-10).
the alkalinity was 80ppm
the calcium hardness was 200ppm
 
Mattyssox said:
red sox

CYA = 0 (i was told it was low before)
ph = 6.8-6.9
chlorine = .5
alkalinity = 80
calcium = 200

20 by 40 pool, 8 ft deep end, 32k? gallons, sand filter, cloudy even when balanced last year.

so how much of what do i need for this pos?

Hello there. Sorry about your issues AND most of us have been there.

When you say your pool was cloudy even when "balanced" I really question whether is was really balanced. "Balanced" can be real balance or "balance" according to the Pool Store tests which more often means it isn't really balanced. For example I have one friend who battles algae constantly. His pool guy tells him the water is fine, just add more Cal Hypo. When I tested the water there was no CYA and the CH was so HIGH from the Cal Hypo that does not add any stabilizer but loads the pool with calcium in a short amount of time.

This pool guy only tested for chlorine and pH, for years :shock: :shock: :shock: and only tested pH and Cl. My friend is now reading Pool School and, although he still depends on the pool guy, the pool is improving and having less algae as long as he adds the correct amount of bleach every other day or so. I did have him add stabilizer but I'm going to have to go over with my test kit so we can get some shocking done properly. I'm also working on getting him to at least test the pH and Cl every other day.

If he would fully adopt the BBB methods we advocate, spend 5-10 minutes a day or every other day doing a couple of simple tests, his pool would be sparkling, algae free, and really balanced in a few days. One doesn't have to fully understand all the concepts. Using the great help here and following the advice given and using the Pool Calculator the understanding will eventually just "happen". Over time light bulbs will start going on and you will go, "oh yeah, now I see". At least that happens to most of us when we see the results. Just takes a little practice and it will become so easy.

gg=alice
 
Mattyssox said:
this kit : http://www.thegreathardwarestore.com/Pr ... click=2744
I use HTH super shock for the pool available at walmart.


cya registered at zero. At the pool store it also registered at zero one week ago and two weeks ago. I have not added stabilizer yet.
the ph was 6.8-6.9, so i put some PH plus in tonight to bring it up to 7.2-7.4 atleast.
the chlorine was .5 so i put bleach in to bring it up to a high shock level (8-10).
the alkalinity was 80ppm
the calcium hardness was 200ppm

The HTH super shock is Cal Hypo and does not add any stabilizer. Be aware that most of the HTH sanitizing products, now sold at Walmart, contain copper. You do not want to add copper to your pool as it can cause copper staining of the pool surfaces and can affect hair color especially blond hair turning green. Enough cooper and letting pH get a little high will cause staining that is virtually impossible to remove. Check the labels on the HTH products to make sure there is no copper.

I know all about copper staining. I have lots of copper staining on my otherwise beautiful blue plaster. I can't do any more acid washes to the 14 year old plaster without damaging it so I'm just living with it and hoping, that over time, keeping the pH a little below 7.5, AND using Walmart's HTH Metal Control, the stains will lighten a bit. It seems that after a half year, using the HTH metal control and the "little bit lower" pH the stains are lightening slightly. It will probably take years for it to lighten but probably not go away until I have to re-plaster, which is several years away as the plaster is in pretty good shape. So I just have to "be with it".

gg=alice
 
so if this hth does not add cya to the pool, then is it possible that my cya is zero (or close to it). My home test said zero both times and the pool store has said zero a few times.

the only odd part is that i use the hockey puck chlorine tablets but they seem to work slowly. That said, maybe they aren't adding all that much stabilizer to my pool?

would this make sense? I bought stabilizer after my pool registered at zero with CYA, but I want to be certain that adding some stabilizer is the right thing to do.
 
Matt...thanks for those results. And indeed it makes sense. Cal Hypo does not add CYA...the pucks do, but it will take a while. You want to add enough CYA to reach 30ppm About 8lbs if your water volume is 30-32k gals. Second, once the CYA is added, raise your FC level to around 12-15 FC and you should see improvement in your water quality over the next few days. Lastly you say the cloudiness is on the deep end...is your main drain open?

My last suggestion is to consider getting a better kit...TF100 or taylor k2006...the yellow OTO chlorine test you have is a good cl pressence check but not very accurate (I can't tell the shades of yellow apart and it only measures up to 5ppm). At this point you are guessing at how much chlorine to add, but it is being consumed very quickly by either organics or ammonia. CYA being zero, you may be battling an ammonia issue, but will not be able to tell, unless you can measure CC.

To raise your FC to the 12-15 area, you will need to add 3-4 gals of 12% liquid chlorine or 6-7 gals of 6% bleach, and then continue adding bleach/chlorine to maintain a high FC level....hope that helps :goodjob:
 
The main drain is always open and working (tested it 2 weeks ago). Last year we had a cloudy pool too even after it was tested a few times. I can't phathom what clear water would look like in my pool. I'm just looking to get it less cloudy, as I know it wil never look like those pools I see at other people's houses.

I will pound it with chlorine for now.

Also, should I add CYA via sock or via skimmer or ???
 

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Mattyssox said:
The main drain is always open and working (tested it 2 weeks ago). Last year we had a cloudy pool too even after it was tested a few times. I can't phathom what clear water would look like in my pool. I'm just looking to get it less cloudy, as I know it wil never look like those pools I see at other people's houses.

I will pound it with chlorine for now.

Also, should I add CYA via sock or via skimmer or ???
I would add it via sock in front of a return. That way, if you need to backwash it won't be lost.

Have faith, your pool will get sparkly :-D
 
Mornin Matty, A bit more information would help too. You say you have a edit sand filter.

edit How long are you going between backwashes.(With high amounts of dead algae being filtered one can expect to have to backwash more than "usual" during the clearing up process.)

edit What is the starting filter pressure, psi, after you backwash, and how much increase in psi do you allow between backwashings?

edit When you backwash does the "clean starting pressure" of the filter go back down to the usual pressure?

How much time do you run your pump for circulation every day?

Where do you live?

What are the air temps?

What is the water temp?

How much sun hits the pool during the day?

Do you have an automatic cover and do you use it?

How much and what kind of debris enters your pool? (fine debris like dust, silt, and sand or larger debris like plant debris or a combination)

Do you have a lot of wind blowing debris into the pool?

How do you clean your pool and how often? (manual vacuuming or automatic vac cleaner or pressure side cleaner, or robot or a combination)

The answers will further help in assisting you to clear your pool, in addition to getting a handle on the chemistry of the pool, killing all the algae, and keeping algae from reappearing.

Many people, here on the forum, who now have sparkling pools, have come to the forum, initially, because they couldn't get their pools cleared up. In most cases the solutions are fairly easy once all the info about the pool and conditions are known.

Most of us, with the exceptions of those extreme environments and unusual problems, spend very little time and very little money, keeping the pool clear and sparkling. I have one of the most EXTREME environments, with extreme heat and sun, very high bather load from a pack of, very active medium, large, and GIANT dogs dragging in huge amounts of sand, silt, and dust all day, "dustbowl" with year round high winds, no cover, yet my pool stays sparkly, clear, and sanitized year round (with a few exceptions). I don't let "those" take control and exist for very long and I have depended on the good people here at TFP to accomplish this. I have the most sparkly, clear, and sanitary pool of any pools owned by anyone I personally know. And you will never smell, taste, or feel any effects of chlorine unless it is just a few minutes after I add bleach. There are very few pools I will swim in or let my dogs swim in. None of those people/pools have near the challenges my environment produces daily and year round. BTW.... I "converted" to the methods, advocated here at TFP, last summer. As far as debris cleaning I do spend more time than most people but only 5-10 minutes, three days a week, four at most, checking and adjusting chemicals.

Mind anyone who should question..... I'm not bragging about my efforts, rather extolling the methods taught here at TFP and the fine people here who are always ready to assist and even "hold our hands" when we have problems and issues.

You'll get there and should be much sooner than you expect. :-D

gg=alice
 
I'm not sure the size of the filter, but its a sta rite one, probably on the old side.

the pump is a new hayward 3/4 hp. The filter is sand. The pool is 8ft deep end and normal 3? ft shallow end. The pool is 20 by 40. There are two return jets, one in deep end one in shallow end. There are two skimmers. There is a main drain.

due to a zero reading on cya, I now have stabilizer in a pillow case hanging over the deep end jet. I put in some PH plus to bring it back up to the 7.5ish range. I put in 3 big size bottles of 6% bleach from walmart this morning. I noticed that in the shallow end i can partially see the bottom, but overall the pool has a greenish tint. My calcium and alkalinity tested fine. My PH was about 6.9. My chlorine level was low 2 days ago, so this is why I have started pounding it with bleach to A. kill the algae and B. get the chlorine level up in general.

Let me know what you guys think. I can't get a new set of test results till I get home from work this evening.

some answers:
not a lot of wind blowing in the pool.
i get sunlight all day, no shade on pool.
no cover on pool.
no heater for pool.
i live in massachusetts.
pool is about 78 ish in the shallow end.
temp outside is 70-80 last few weeks.
 
Mattyssox, the kit you have looks like the HTH 6-way, which is fine except for two things: the CYA test only has enough stuff for 2-3 tests, and the chlorine test is not the souped-up FAS-DPD test that we are all infatuated with. You can augment what you have with individual CYA and FAS-DPD tests, or spring for a whole bigger kit, up to you. To really know what's going on during the shock process we do recommend the FAS-DPD test; it works up to 50ppm.

So if your CYA is 0, and it's 32K gallons, you'd need 8 lb granular CYA to raise it to 30ppm.

The 3 jugs bleach you added would raise FC by about 8. With no CYA that's about the right ballpark. You'll need higher levels in a few days once the CYA starts to take hold.
--paulr
 
Matty..Bleach additions will be required at least every other day, or as often as required to maintain appropriate min FC. You can get by with the in-line chlorinator but eventually it will raise your CYA and cause problems. Have you read through pool school yet? Maintaining your pool is really about knowing what's going on with your water...and that will come with practice and understanding how certain chemicals impact your water chemistry.
 
Putting some numbers to what dmanb2b said, it's typical to need to replace 1-2ppm FC per day, which would be about one big jug every other day.

Trichlor adds 6ppm CYA for each 10ppm FC, so if you rely solely on the pucks for your 7-14 ppm FC per week, that's 4-8ppm CYA per week. Over a typical Massachusetts 3-4 month season you can see it would add up to too much.
--paulr
 
Interesting. So why would the previous owner even set up a chlorinator? Or are there pucks that don't have CYA? I suppose that's what has been throwing me off.

It seems like the pucks are useless. They work slowly (too little chlorine) and they add CYA, which could eventually cause a problem.
 

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