Pool automation / swg

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mitch08

mitch08

0
Jun 30, 2008
405
Suffolk County, NY
Hey all,

Extremely new to the idea of automation. But really want to get it set up to make my pool easier to control with Wi-Fi.

Hoping to get some recommendations on which product would be best and general pricing if possible.

I have a pool / Spa combo with two valves.
Very basic. Pool mode, Spa mode, waterfall. These are the only two valves on my pool plumbing.

I want to control the heat, which mode the valves are in, the pool light, and if possible the outdoor lighting.

I do not have swg yet but I want to put it in at the same time and I'm really leaning towards the circupool rj-60 plus (25k pool).

Right now I run my pump 24-7 for the summer and I have so much success doing that I do not want to stop. If possible I want to remain doing that with the swg, so I do not necessarily need the pump on the automation.

Sorry for the wordy thread, but thanks a million in advance for any help.
 
For automating it is beneficial to have everything the same brand. What brand is your equipment? Can you add what you have (including model #s) to your sigline?
 
Mitch,

If buying a complete new system, then what PoolGate says is true, especially if you have a VS pump and a SWG...

But in your case, almost any automation system will work... heaters, and 2-speed pumps, and off brand SWCG's can all be universally controlled.

I have Pentair EasyTouch systems and love them, but to be honest, other brands have the same basic features and their owners love them.

Cost is a big factor in brand name automation.. Here is a link to a basic set up for your pool, plus a remote system that can control you pool via a PC, Tablet, or phone...

https://sunplay.com/collections/pentair-easytouch-control-systems/products/pentair-easy-touch-control-system-520538

https://sunplay.com/collections/pentair-easytouch-control-systems/products/pentair-screenlogic-interface-and-wireless-522104

My only warning, if you plan to buy a Pentair system, is do NOT buy a PL4 or PSL4.. these are "lite" systems and taste like it.. :cool:

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
Mitch,

If buying a complete new system, then what PoolGate says is true, especially if you have a VS pump and a SWG...

But in your case, almost any automation system will work... heaters, and 2-speed pumps, and off brand SWCG's can all be universally controlled.

I have Pentair EasyTouch systems and love them, but to be honest, other brands have the same basic features and their owners love them.

Cost is a big factor in brand name automation.. Here is a link to a basic set up for your pool, plus a remote system that can control you pool via a PC, Tablet, or phone...

https://sunplay.com/collections/pentair-easytouch-control-systems/products/pentair-easy-touch-control-system-520538

https://sunplay.com/collections/pentair-easytouch-control-systems/products/pentair-screenlogic-interface-and-wireless-522104

My only warning, if you plan to buy a Pentair system, is do NOT buy a PL4 or PSL4.. these are "lite" systems and taste like it.. :cool:

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...

One last question. Sorry to be a bother.
If I go with the Pentair which I almost definitely am. And my heater is a different brand... Will it only allow me to control on off? Or will I also be able to control the temp? Because when I remotely turn the hot tub on I want to be able to set the temperature higher Etc. Thanks again
 
Mitch,

Most automation systems control the heater the same way... You turn on the heater and turn the temp all the way up... The automation controls something called the "firemen's" switch. When the switch is open, the heater will do nothing... You just leave the heater on all the time, it is not running of course..

The automation has a water temperature probe... When the water temperature is less than you want, the automation closes the Firemen's switch and keeps it closed until the water temperature you have set on the automation, matches the temperature you want... The automation system has a temperature for the Pool and one for the Spa...

Here is a screenshot of ScreenLogic and should give you an idea on how it works.

dbtgallery.php


If you are at work, as an example, and decide when you want the hot tub ready when you get home, you can use your phone app and select Spa and tell it what temp you want. The automation will turn the valves over to the Spa Mode, turn on pump, and tell the heater to come alive and start making heat. Once the spa water reaches the temp you have set, it will turn the heater on/off to hold the spa at that temp..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
Mitch,

Most automation systems control the heater the same way... You turn on the heater and turn the temp all the way up... The automation controls something called the "firemen's" switch. When the switch is open, the heater will do nothing... You just leave the heater on all the time, it is not running of course..

The automation has a water temperature probe... When the water temperature is less than you want, the automation closes the Firemen's switch and keeps it closed until the water temperature you have set on the automation, matches the temperature you want... The automation system has a temperature for the Pool and one for the Spa...

Here is a screenshot of ScreenLogic and should give you an idea on how it works.

dbtgallery.php


If you are at work, as an example, and decide when you want the hot tub ready when you get home, you can use your phone app and select Spa and tell it what temp you want. The automation will turn the valves over to the Spa Mode, turn on pump, and tell the heater to come alive and start making heat. Once the spa water reaches the temp you have set, it will turn the heater on/off to hold the spa at that temp..

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much! You have been such an incredible help I cannot tell you how much I appreciate it. But every time you tell me something it gives me more questions that I did not think of before :)

So that is perfect. I can just leave the thing set at 104 or whatever and the automation will turn the heater on and off as needed. Depending on what mode I am in.

But what about chlorine? If I am in Spa mode and using the RJ 60 which is obviously a different brand. How do I stop the cell from generating chlorine and Blasting the spa with way too much?

Sort of like back in the old days when I used pucks in a chlorinator. When I turned the spa on I had to turn the chlorinator off manually or else the spa would go to shock level. Thanks again Jim!
 
Mitch,

Well, this is just one example of why we almost always recommend using the same brand of equipment when initially setting up a new automation system...

If you were using the Pentair cell, it communicates with the automation system via a serial com port. The automation would automatically reduce the cell's output when in the Spa mode.

This will not happen when you use a third party cell.. You could make the system shut the cell off in the spa mode, but it would require you to use one of the three available relays..

I just to want to make sure that the train has not jumped the track.. :p

My initial suggestion was based on the fact that I "assumed" that you already had a 2-speed pump and the RJ-60 and that you were trying to configure a system using them. If that is not the case, then it makes more sense to buy same brand of equipment...

Everything has Pros and Cons, but you can't get Cadillac performance if you are trying to upgrade a Volkswagen... :rolleyes:

Here is another pic showing the salt cell page.. You can see where you can set the percent of chlorine you want in the Pool mode and a different valve in the Spa mode. You can also see where you can read the salt level in the pool water..

dbtgallery.php




Like almost everyone else here on TFP, I am a volunteer.. I do this because I like it.. If you didn't have more questions, I would not be having any fun, so ask away.. :cool:

Jim R.
 

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Ok cool.

I really do have my mind set on the CircuPool RJ-60 PLUS. Just because everything I am reading is so positive. The 3 lbs of output a day really seem to set it apart.

As long as I can use a relay to turn it off in Spa mode, I think I will be okay.

But if I also want to control the actuators, heater, pool light, and some outdoor lighting, would I need the 8 relay Pentair instead?
 
mitch08 said:
Ok cool.

I really do have my mind set on the CircuPool RJ-60 PLUS. Just because everything I am reading is so positive. The 3 lbs of output a day really seem to set it apart.

As long as I can use a relay to turn it off in Spa mode, I think I will be okay.

But if I also want to control the actuators, heater, pool light, and some outdoor lighting, would I need the 8 relay Pentair instead?
Click to expand...


Mitch,

More is always better, but more equals more cost...

The ET 4 has four relays, but one is restricted to being the Pump/Filter relay.. Here is how I would envision your ET-4 being setup...

Pump/Filter relay - Used to run a single speed pump and the salt cell power. (Note.. To be able to switch between low speed and high speed, on a two speed pump, you will need an additional 2-speed relay). I would recommend you do this.. Low speed will save you a ton on your electrical bill..

Aux 1 relay - Pool light... If you want all the pool/spa lights to come on/off at the same time, then you only need one relay.. If you want each light to be controlled independently, then you will need one relay per light.

Aux 2 relay - Outdoor lighting...

Aux 3 relay - Not yet used.. (I would use this for an equipment pad light)

Actuators - Intake and Return drivers used to move the Intake and Return valves between the Pool mode, Spa mode, and Spillover mode. Leaves two valve drives (A and B) not used yet.

Heater - No high voltage relays needed for the heater. The heater connects to the main board for control of the fireman's switch.

To control your SWCG, when in the Spa mode, you will need an additional 2-speed relay, so that when in the pool mode, the cell gets power, and when in the spa mode it does not. To do this you need a Normally closed relay... All the relays that come with the ET4, or ET8, are Normally Open relays. You could use any relay with NC contacts, but the 2-speed relay fits into the chassis and comes with the cable to connect it to the main board.

The ET4 also allows you to add a standard relay, making it an "ET-5", assuming that you do not use a solar system. I currently use this "Aux Ex" relay in my ET4..

So, in my mind, I see that based upon the above, you still have two unused relays, and can still control all of the items on your list..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
You could always just plumb the cell/flow switch into the pool return side only instead of prior to the three way valve that splits the pool from the spa.

I'm not sure about Circupool but Pentair Automation is compatible with a few other brand cells:

Chlorine Generator
The IntelliTouch system is designed to operate with the following salt chlorine generators:
• Pentair Water Pool and Spa® IntelliChlor®
• GoldLine Aqua Rite®
• Clear Tech Automation AutoClear® Plus
• AutoPilot Pool Pilot® Digital
Note: Call your manufacturer for compatibility with IntelliTouch systems.

It seems like the IntelliChlors either work without issue or have nothing but issues. That being said, if I was starting from scratch and didn't already own a cell I would go with the IntelliCenter/IntelliChlor combo...
 
Jimrahbe said:
bdavis466 said:
You could always just plumb the cell/flow switch into the pool return side only instead of prior to the three way valve that splits the pool from the spa.
Click to expand...

Brian,

Doing that would leave your cell powered, and just relying on the flow switch to shut it off.. Safety wise, not something that I would recommend..

Jim R.
Click to expand...

Correct...... But that's how many manufacturers recommend doing it. It really is a poorly designed system but the risk is greatly reduced/eliminated if the flow switch is located on the pool return side.

From Circupool's manual....

#2 would be ideal for the OP's situation

Screenshot_20181202-083137~2.jpg
 
I recommend that an Intellichlor be used.

It doesn't make sense to use a salt system that is not compatible with the automation system.

If you want a big cell, the IC60 should be plenty. It probably produces the same amount of chlorine as the RJ60 regardless of the "rated" output.
 
Thanks everyone. You convinced me I will go with a straight Pentair System including the 60k cell.

Jim: I've been a member of this board forever. Many people have been very helpful, but nobody took the time to explain and diagram things out the way you did. You gave me a crash course on how these work.

Thank you so much!
 
mitch08 said:
Thanks everyone. You convinced me I will go with a straight Pentair System including the 60k cell.

Jim: I've been a member of this board forever. Many people have been very helpful, but nobody took the time to explain and diagram things out the way you did. You gave me a crash course on how these work.

Thank you so much!
Click to expand...



Mitch,

Glad I was able to help... If you are planning to go with a Pentair SWCG, then make sure you get the EasyTouch with the built-in salt cell power supply...

As Brian has already pointed out, Pentair has a newer automation system called the "IntelliCenter". If I was building a new system, I would at least look at it and check out the costs vs. the Easytouch.. Here is a good thread, but you will need to skip to the last couple of pages for any real insight.. See this link... Pentair IntelliCenter

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Mitch,

That is the perfect systems!!! There are two things missing... ScreenLogic2, which allows control by your PC, phone or tablet.. https://sunplay.com/collections/pentair-easytouch-control-systems/products/pentair-screenlogic-interface-and-wireless-522104

And a 2-speed relay, so you can control your 2-speed pump... https://sunplay.com/products/pentair-3-hp-relay-520198

One of the advantages of the IntelliCenter is that is comes with a built-in "ScreenLogic like" remote system..

ScreenLogic makes using and programming the ET about 10 x easier than using the controls on the main panel.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

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