Plumbing Question

[randdusing]

Hello,

I'm trying to understand how my pool return plumbing works.

In pool mode, water flows through pipes 1 & 2. This causes water to run through both the pool and spa jets. If I turn up the rpms, water will exit the spa water feature as well.

In spa mode, water flows through pipes 3 & 4. 3 goes to the water feature and 4 goes to the jets.

I'm assuming pipe 1 goes to the spa since there's a check valve behind it. And thus pipe 2 goes to the pool. But how is it possible for pipe 1 to go to both the spa water feature and return jets?

Thanks,
Rand

 

[Dirk]

I can't really help with this area of expertise, but others here can. They might need a few more angles on the plumbing, if you can manage a few more photos, that might get you your answer faster.

When you get this issue resolved, you might want to give some attention to these other ones:



Do those valves control how you fill your pool? Do you have an auto-fill valve elsewhere? Our weather is changing and Texas is getting colder. That entire assembly should be well insulated, and those two red-handled PVC ball valves are going to fail. Probably sooner than later from the looks of them. All the other valves in your pic are of good quality, but not these two. You'd be doing yourself a favor to replace them with one or two high-quality brass ball valves, and then insulate all but the handles. (Depending on what this assembly is doing, you might only need one valve instead of two, we can advise on that, too.) If you're at all handy, this is a pretty simple DIY fix.

If you wait until this fails, it could conceivably be catastrophic. Murphy's Law is clear on this, it'll happen when it's freezing out and you're away for a few days. Consider getting ahead of it.

If that brass component has a brand and model number on it, and you post a pic of that, I can better advise.

 

[ajw22]

Show us your spa and the spa water feature and all the water outlets you have in the spa.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rand,

Your set-up looks odd to me...

In theory, when you are in the Pool mode, most of the water should go to the pool returns (jets or eyeballs) and a little water should go to the spa to cause it to overflow into the pool.. This is how the spa gets fresh water.

In the Spa mode, all the water should go to the spa only.

In your set-up you can't adjust the amount of water going to the spa spillover, when in the Pool mode, which makes no sense..

In the Spa mode, there should be no valve for a "water feature"..

Just so that we are all on the same page, what "water feature" do you have?? Are you calling your spa spillover a water feature??? What happens when you shut the pipe #3 valve off???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[randdusing]

I can't really help with this area of expertise, but others here can. They might need a few more angles on the plumbing, if you can manage a few more photos, that might get you your answer faster.

When you get this issue resolved, you might want to give some attention to these other ones:

View attachment 560847

Do those valves control how you fill your pool? Do you have an auto-fill valve elsewhere? Our weather is changing and Texas is getting colder. That entire assembly should be well insulated, and those two red-handled PVC ball valves are going to fail. Probably sooner than later from the looks of them. All the other valves in your pic are of good quality, but not these two. You'd be doing yourself a favor to replace them with one or two high-quality brass ball valves, and then insulate all but the handles. (Depending on what this assembly is doing, you might only need one valve instead of two, we can advise on that, too.) If you're at all handy, this is a pretty simple DIY fix.

If you wait until this fails, it could conceivably be catastrophic. Murphy's Law is clear on this, it'll happen when it's freezing out and you're away for a few days. Consider getting ahead of it.

If that brass component has a brand and model number on it, and you post a pic of that, I can better advise.

Yep, that's the backflow preventer for filling the pool. There's no auto-fill valve. I just turn the bottom/right red-handled valve when needed to manually fill the pool. I don't really understand why the backflow preventer is necessary since there is never "back pressure" coming from the pool. The valves look pretty worn, but they rotate fairly smoothy. I just had some similar valves near my water softener and sediment filter replaced since they were nearly impossible to turn, and I hadn't thought about replacing these.

Show us your spa and the spa water feature and all the water outlets you have in the spa.

I've attached a photo. The water feature is rock waterfall in the top right.

Rand,

Your set-up looks odd to me...

In theory, when you are in the Pool mode, most of the water should go to the pool returns (jets or eyeballs) and a little water should go to the spa to cause it to overflow into the pool.. This is how the spa gets fresh water.

In the Spa mode, all the water should go to the spa only.

In your set-up you can't adjust the amount of water going to the spa spillover, when in the Pool mode, which makes no sense..

In the Spa mode, there should be no valve for a "water feature"..

Just so that we are all on the same page, what "water feature" do you have?? Are you calling your spa spillover a water feature??? What happens when you shut the pipe #3 valve off???

Thanks,

Jim R.

Yep, I wanted to run the pump at lower speeds and then divert more water to the spa to keep a "full" spillover but realized that isn't possible. The water feature is the rock waterfall in the top right (not the spillover). If I turn off pipe #3, water won't flow down the rock waterfall.

Thanks everyone for the help so far.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rand,

Odd indeed... I would not think that you would want your rock waterfall running when in the Spa mode... It seems this would cause your spa to spillover in the spa mode, which you really don't want.

Show me how your Intake plumbing and automated Intake valve look..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

I don't really understand why the backflow preventer is necessary since there is never "back pressure" coming from the pool.

BFPs protect your neighborhood's/city's water supply. Here's one scenario that can cause a back flow event. This is assuming the outlet of your fill system is under water, and you didn't have that BFP.

You start your fill and walk away. Meanwhile, a water main bursts somewhere down hill of where you live. The city turns off the water main, to stop the flood, but the leak is still occurring. Instead of the water main being under normal positive pressure, it's now negative. The water, still draining through the leak, is siphoning water out of the main uphill of the leak, and your pool. The water main continues to drain, and your pool continues to refill the water main. Eventually the leak gets fixed and the city turns the pressure back on. But now the water main is full of your pool water. Unbeknownst to your neighbors, who are eager to use water after being out of it for a few hours, start taking showers and washing dishes and drinking water from the tap... your pool water!

That's just one example of a backflow event. It has nothing to do with "back pressure" from your pool. They are caused by negative pressure in the water main drawing water from any open pipe anywhere in the neighborhood. Like a hose watering a garden full of cow poop and pesticides, or a sprinkler system in a lawn full of weed killer, etc.

That's why toilets and sprinklers and hose bibs and just about everything in your home has a built in backflow preventer. And why many municipalities demand every pool does, too.

 

[randdusing]

Rand,

Odd indeed... I would not think that you would want your rock waterfall running when in the Spa mode... It seems this would cause your spa to spillover in the spa mode, which you really don't want.

Show me how your Intake plumbing and automated Intake valve look..

Thanks,

Jim R.

I've attached a photo of the intake side. I believe the left side is the pool drain and two skimmers, and the right side is the spa drain. I've been meaning to verify these and label them accordingly, but I started with the more complicated return side.

BFPs protect your neighborhood's/city's water supply. Here's one scenario that can cause a back flow event. This is assuming the outlet of your fill system is under water, and you didn't have that BFP.

You start your fill and walk away. Meanwhile, a water main bursts somewhere down hill of where you live. The city turns off the water main, to stop the flood, but the leak is still occurring. Instead of the water main being under normal positive pressure, it's now negative. The water, still draining through the leak, is siphoning water out of the main uphill of the leak, and your pool. The water main continues to drain, and your pool continues to refill the water main. Eventually the leak gets fixed and the city turns the pressure back on. But now the water main is full of your pool water. Unbeknownst to your neighbors, who are eager to use water after being out of it for a few hours, start taking showers and washing dishes and drinking water from the tap... your pool water!

That's just one example of a backflow event. It has nothing to do with "back pressure" from your pool. They are caused by negative pressure in the water main drawing water from any open pipe anywhere in the neighborhood. Like a hose watering a garden full of cow poop and pesticides, or a sprinkler system in a lawn full of weed killer, etc.

That's why toilets and sprinklers and hose bibs and just about everything in your home has a built in backflow preventer. And why many municipalities demand every pool does, too.

Ahh, my fill system is above water, so the "air gap" should have been a sufficient BFP, right?

 

[Dirk]

Ahh, my fill system is above water, so the "air gap" should have been a sufficient BFP, right?

If by that you mean the exit of the fill pipe is above the pool's water level, like above the coping, and always will be no matter how high the pool gets, and the fill water has to fall and splash into the water, then yes, that is a natural BFP and the best there is (simplest and most reliable).

If you mean that just the components of your system are above the water, but the exit is ultimately underwater, then no, that's not an adequate BFP.

Nor is it adequate if the exit is a hole in your edge tile which could get underwater if the pool water level got high enough.