Plumbing question about the Pool Returns

[nikolausp]

I have a fairly new pool. I haver never had a pool , so still a bit overwhelmed, but this forum has helped a lot.

I want to run my pump 24/7.

In "Pool Mode", the pumps return water to BOTH the Spa and Pool, so I get 24/7 spillover from my SPA..... no bueno!!! Of course I had no idea that this is not how it's supposed to be, and had no reason (or so I thought!) to question the builder since he was highly recommended by some friends of mine. After reading this forum a lot, I've come to understand about rising PH, and how the aeration from a spillover not plumbed right is a really pain for that. I've also read all about the "Spillway" Mode on this forum, and how POOL Mode should return to Pool from the Pool Drain, SPA mode should return to Spa from the Spa Drain, and SPILLWAY Mode should return to the Spa from the Pool Drain.

When I asked the builder how to make it so my pool only returns to the pool when in POOL mode, he said that's not how pools are built, and said my pool can't do that, and isn't plumbed for that. I'm really upset after learning this, and hope that something can be done. Perhaps somebody could help me figure out a solution to this.... I'm crossing my fingers. I'm going to try and post some photos of the Equipment Pad.

 

[CrystalRiver]

Your plumbing is correct to do what you want. I don't have experience with setting up the automation, but I'm confident it can be done on your pool and that your PB doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Jimrahbe]

N,

Well, while your pool builder is an idiot, he is correct that he plumbed your pool to have a constant spa spillover...

The good news is that you can fix the problem.. It all starts with the check valve that is to the left of your automated Return valve.. You can take the check valve out and put it in backward, or better yet, you can replace the check valve guts with the guts from a manual Jandy -2 -way valve.. This will stop the spillover.

Then you can set up your EasyTouch with a Spillway function.. Then schedule that function to run for say half an hour twice a day.. or whenever you want to impress your guests with the spillover.

Very easy to do with ScreenLogic..

Let me know if that sounds like the way you want to go.

thanks,

Jim R.

 

[nikolausp]

N,

Well, while your pool builder is an idiot, he is correct that he plumbed your pool to have a constant spa spillover...

The good news is that you can fix the problem.. It all starts with the check valve that is to the left of your automated Return valve.. You can take the check valve out and put it in backward, or better yet, you can replace the check valve guts with the guts from a manual Jandy -2 -way valve.. This will stop the spillover.

Then you can set up your EasyTouch with a Spillway function.. Then schedule that function to run for say half an hour twice a day.. or whenever you want to impress your guests with the spillover.

Very easy to do with ScreenLogic..

Let me know if that sounds like the way you want to go.

thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim, YES, thanks!

It's actually your posts about your 30 min "Spillway" runs during your 24/7 setup, that got me researching this topic, and realizing that I can't do it with my current set up. I've been reading a lot of posts on this forum since last summer!

I thought that the site glass there made no sense! I want to do whatever the best option is to fix this is, period, regardless of cost. You're saying that's to somehow somehow replace guts?

Can I just put a new Jandy-2-way valve in and have it be better or simpler than replacing "guts" ? I want to get the builder's plumber out here to fix it for me, and I think I can make that happen.

Perhaps, at this point, without PVC disruption, replacing the 'guts' would be the most clean option..... Is that what you meant? I've never dealt with any PVC or pool parts before.

Whatever way or option is best, that's what I want. And I want it to be set up perfectly so I can do all the automation things like you have in your Pentair automation schedule. I've read many posts about your 1200 RPM, FC of 6 running all day, two 30min runs to the Spillover for the Spa.... etc. I've read a lot!

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Jimrahbe]

N,

The sight glass is really a one-way check valve. In your case, it lets water go down, but not back up. This prevents the spa from draining into the pool when the pump is off.

The ideal way to fix your set-up is to have a plumber come back and add the 2-way Jandy valve to the line with the check valve.. So you would end up with a 2-way Jandy valve and your current check valve. That is how it should have been done in the first place.

This would allow you to manually run the spillover and adjust the amount of spillover with the new valve, or just shut the new valve off, and run the spillover using your automation..

Another option is to replace your current check valve with a Jandy -2-way valve. This would not require any plumbing change, just remove the clear cover/check valve and replace it with a 2-way valve assembly.. The body is the same for both. This will shut off the constant spillover. Keep in mind the spillover is what keeps the spa water fresh.. If you shut if off, you need to set up your EasyTouch to control the spillover the same day so that you can keep the water fresh.

To set up your EasyTouch to control the spillover you just need to do four things in ScreenLogic. (You can set this up first, but it will not work until you can shut off the water flowing through your existing check valve...)

1. Find an unused Feature Circuit (In this example we will use Feature 5..)
2. Name Feature Circuit #5 as "Spillway" and set the Circuit Function to "Spillway"
3. Set the pump speed for the Spillway Circuit to 2000 RPM. (You can make the speed be whatever works best for you and your pool/spa)
4. Set up a schedule to run the Spillway Circuit. I suggest running for half an hour twice a day.

I use my PC for all programming as it makes it dirt simple and almost intuitive.. Here are the setup pages you need to update..

Schedules1.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Mar 8, 2021

Page 2a of 5.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Apr 4, 2020

Set up page 4.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Apr 19, 2019

Just let me know if you have any questions.


Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[nikolausp]

So I want a 2-way Jandy valve below (I'm assuming?) the Check valve? Or does above or below matter at all? Would that be a pretty quick and easy job for a good pool plumber? It doesn't seem like there's much room above or below, on my pipe with the check valve.

Also, will this valve be totally manual (no automatic programming with it) ? I was thinking it might be nice to have it all the way open for things like chemical mixing... so (like now) all 8 of returns are going when I add chemicals. I could call it Chemicals or something perhaps. And then have it set to just run once, and then go back to normal Pool Mode which would automatically close this new 2-way valve? Or will it be all manual?

And thanks again for your help on this, I appreciate it.

 

[Jimrahbe]

N,

The plumber would just make the "loop" in your pipe a little bigger so that the check valve and manual valve would fit at the same time.

Adding the new Jandy valve just makes your plumbing work like it should have from the beginning.. It just allows you a way to shut off the constant spillover. And it also gives you the option of not using the automated spillway function that is in the EasyTouch, if you later decide you don't like it.

You could automate the new valve, but that is now how the EasyTouch was designed to handle the spillover.

I suggest that you use in preprogrammed Spillway function that is inside the EasyTouch first, before trying to automate any new valve.

Assuming that you like the operation of the EasyTouch's Spillway function, the new Jandy valve would remain closed all the time.. Basically you will be just shutting off the pipe that currently has the check valve in it..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[kevinskii]

I'll be the voice of dissent here. Not only did your PB do an absolutely beautiful job with your setup, but he is arguably correct in not plumbing the pool the way you want. Mine is plumbed the same way, so that water is also returned to the spa while in pool mode. This maintains the spa water level, and much more importantly, ensures that the spa chlorine gets replenished throughout the day. At the low pump rpms that you'll typically be running, the spillover shouldn't really affect your pH.

 

[nikolausp]

Ok, gotcha. So it sounds like if he makes the "loop" a little bigger/taller, the 2-way valve would go on top of the Check Valve in that scenario.

On a side note, for kicks I hit the Valve button in the control box till it said Fill (Spillway) mode, and it did in fact shift to Drain from Pool, return to Spa, so that's all ready to go.

 

[nikolausp]

I'll be the voice of dissent here. Not only did your PB do an absolutely beautiful job with your setup, but he is arguably correct in not plumbing the pool the way you want. Mine is plumbed the same way, so that water is also returned to the spa while in pool mode. This maintains the spa water level, and much more importantly, ensures that the chlorine gets replenished throughout the day. At the low pump rpms that you'll typically be running, the spillover shouldn't really affect your pH.

I hear ya, but it seems like I should at least have the option to shut down the spillover, especially at times when I want to run the Filter Pump (in Pool Mode) much higher.

 

[kevinskii]

Maybe it's not as much of an issue for me because I have a really wide spillway. It barely aerates even at max pump speed. You could change the plumbing as others have suggested, but I would seriously consider leaving it as is. If you ever inadvertently forget to circulate your spa for too long you could end up with an algae bloom or some sick swimmers. Given the mistakes I've made even while supposedly knowing what I was doing, I'm happy that my pool is idiot-proofed in that regard.

 

[nikolausp]

Maybe it's not as much of an issue for me because I have a really wide spillway. It barely aerates even at max pump speed. You could change the plumbing as others have suggested, but I would seriously consider leaving it as is. If you ever inadvertently forget to circulate your spa for too long you could end up with an algae bloom or some sick swimmers. Given the mistakes I've made even while supposedly knowing what I was doing, I'm happy that my pool is idiot-proofed in that regard.

Putting the 2-way valve in there just gives me more options though. Open, closed, opened part way, etc, for different automation creativity. Also, what if there's a problem with the spa? I'd want to still be running the Pool Filter Pump with water only returned to the pool even if the Spa needs to be drained or something.

Thanks for the kind words about the equipment pad plumbing, btw.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Kevin,

I disagree as I have never seen a spillover that could not be shut off.. Either there is a make-up valve that you can shut off, or you can reset the Return valve to shut off the spillover. In the current set up, you can't even adjust the amount of water that the spillover gets. Another down side is that it takes half of the water that would normally go to the pool returns and sends it to the spa.

I totally agree that you don't want to have to manually turn the spillover on and off each day... The whole point here is to allow the automation to run the spillover on a schedule instead of having it continually run. This would keep the spa water fresh.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[kevinskii]

Sure, I can understand why someone might want to have the ability to shut off their spillover, and as you mentioned, it's easy to modify the plumbing. But in the couple of other new pool builds I've seen in my area, the "forced spillover" seems to be standard. This setup still allows you divert more water to the spillover if you want the effect, you just can't shut it off completely. I don't worry about the spa getting most of the returned water because the spillover sends it right back to the pool anyways. Also, for a raised spa like mine, the spa return actually has a lower flow rate than any of the pool returns do.

@nikolausp is obviously smart enough to avoid chlorine depletion issues. I just hope the PB gets a good review and lots of referrals because that equipment pad is a work of art. I thought I had a pretty nice equipment pad, but if mine looked like that I would probably never look at the pool.