Plumbing Advice for pool and spa

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If you cover the spa with an opaque cover you will be able to manage the spa chemistry better and you won't need to run it as much. That being said, I do agree with ozdiver that a separate spa will cost you more in "maintenance". You basically have two swimming pools sharing the same pumping system.

Let me ask you this thought experiment - if you completely scrapped the in-ground spa idea, how much money would you save and could you purchase a stand-alone hot tub that would be easier to manage?

If you stick with the spa, you might want to consider a supplemental UV/Ozone disinfection system.


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So it's probably easier to have a spill-over to help manage the spa chemistry. I thinking all I would have to do to my plumbing diagram is remove the spa suction and keep the return. I guess I would still need a skimmer for the winter through.

Is it possible with a spill-over to shut down the pool in the winter and still run the spa, by lowering the water.

As for the stand-alone spa I just don't like the look of them, plus the cost of electricity compared to gas to heat is the leading factor. Since I want to run it for at least part of the winter.
 
So in my spillover spa, I have a floor drain, NO skimmer, one return and 5 jets. When the spillover runs, water is drawn from the pool and return water is split via a three-way valve between the 3 pool returns and the one spa return. When the spa runs, water is drawn through the floor drains in the spa and returned to the jets.

You could certainly winterize the pool and keep the spa running but you will need to keep it running for freeze protection purposes. Covering it will retain heat and keep rain/snow-melt out. Will your pipes be insulated at all? What about your equipment room?

I understand the thoughts on the hot tub.


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I'm using insulated concrete forms for the spa. I have a buddy that runs a company that installs it. We plan on keeping the outside insulation and removing the interior foam. So the spa itself will be insulated and with a custom insulated cover I should be good in that department. I have thought about insulation the pipes them( but I'm not too sure how exactly), I have see a pipe insulation similar to what you would use in the house but covered in big O. The equipment will be in an enclosure but bot heated or insulated.

I don't think I'll run the spa all winter probably until mid December and open in March.
 
Pre-insulated PVC exists (see HERE) but it's probably SUPER expensive.

Ok, sounds like you're on the right path in terms of winterization.


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OK. I have updated my plumbing again. I have removed the bypass for the filter and heater and now I just bypassing the SWG. I have alos removed the waterfall since the spa is going to be a spillover.

Untitled.jpg

Should there be a check valve on the spa return?
 
1. Yes you need a check valve on the spa jets pipe on the return side.

2. Why so many check valves on the SWG? Just put one CV between pump and filter. Use Jandy type CVs.

3. Simplify/reduce valves - replace pool drain and pool skimmer shutoff valves with one single 3-way valve. This is good from a safety perspective as you can easily dead-head your pump if both shut offs are accidentally closed.

4. Same as above on return side - combine all three return side valves (pool returns and spa return) into one 3-way valve. Automate if you like.

5. No need for a shutoff valve in spa suction side pipe.


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The direction in the manual of the Jandy aqua pure says a check valve should be installed after the heater but before the SWG. As for the CV after the SWG I was think it should be there so the water doe'st flow backward from the bypass.
 
damb said:
The direction in the manual of the Jandy aqua pure says a check valve should be installed after the heater but before the SWG.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't under stand the purpose of that statement. It makes no sense to me why they would insist on a check-valve there. So I guess I'll have to wait for someone smarter than me to explain it.

As for the CV after the SWG I was think it should be there so the water doe'st flow backward from the bypass.
Click to expand...

This too seems to only be necessary if you were considering removing the SWG while the bypass was active. I'm not sure under what conditions one would want to do that.

Let me ask you another question - is your equipment pad, specifically your pump and filter, going to be at a higher elevation than the surface of your pool water?

If so, then I think the only check-valve you need is between the pump and filter to prevent the water in the filter from backing up through the pump when you open the pump basket.
 
Not smarter by a long way, but I found having one behind chlorinator (puck), when pump is stopped, prevented the concentrated FC drifting back into heater and accellerating the corrosion of it's innards.
I don't think that is the same issue with a SWG as it does not produce FC when there is no flow.

When in Spa mode a bypass is only needed if you cannot, or prefer not to deactivate the SWG.
 

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Ok I getting closer to construction (hopefully march) and would like some input on my updated plumbing. I have tried to simplify it as much as possible, but have decided to keep the spa bypass just in case I need it. I have read on here in many post that because of the high flow rate needed for the spa jets it may be need, and since I plan on putting 10 jets @ 10gpm each it's probably a good idea to put one in. If I don't need it than I don't need it, but I figure it's a good back up plan.

Please let me know if you guys have a recommendations.

Untitled DEC 14.jpg
 
Why do you have a check valve on the spa jets? Is this a raised spa?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 
If the spa is raised and has a Hartford loop, then I don't think you need the spa jet return check valve? Maybe I'm wrong and others have better plumbing advice.

Will you have an air blower on the spa air line or rely solely on a Venturi air draw?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 
If the spa is raised and has a Hartford loop, then I don't think you need the spa jet return check valve? Maybe I'm wrong and others have better plumbing advice.
Click to expand...
The Hartford loop is for the air line so it doesn't fill with water and make it hard for the venturi's to clear it. Still a good idea to have one even with the air vent at 5-6' away.

The check valve prevents the water from siphoning back into the pool when the pump is off. Necessary for this setup.

However, the check valve between the heater and swg isn't really necessary. I know people some recommend that but a SWG does not generate chlorine when the flow stops so unlike a standard chlorine feeder, it won't harm the heater.
 
I do plan on putting Hartford loop in. As for the check valve between the heater and the swg I'm just going off the instruction from Jandy. I can't see it doing any harm having one there just add a little cost but could save me if there is a warranty issues with the swg.

Does everything else look ok?

What do you guys think of my heater size. I wanted to go with a 400k heater but got a very good deal on this one ($650 canadian) brand new. I kind of worried on how long it will take to heat up a 550 gallon spa. I figured it will take about 25 minutes or so to raise it 25 deg.
 
Ah, ok. I see the need for the spa check valve. I was thinking if the 3-way valve were closed to the spa (so position set to flow water to pool) then that would be sufficient. However, if the valve isn't perfectly shut or should have a little bit of weep to it, then the check valve is good insurance against a slow drain of the spa.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 
My only other comment is this, and it's one that you don't necessarily have to show on the design unless the design plans are actually to scale - leave a good 12-18" of straight pipe in front of and after the SWG. Most of the SWG manufacturer's installation guides say to do this or to avoid 90-deg elbows near the input of the SWG to reduce the possibility that turbulence might affect the flow sensor. It's also helpful in that if you want to add an acid injection pump later on, that's typically done after the heater but before the SWG. If you did add acid injection then having that check valve right after the heater is even more of a bonus.

Just my thoughts FWIW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 
You can eliminate the 90-elbow at the filter input if you simply move the valve to its place. The overall length of the spa bypass will be shorter as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 

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